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Topic ClosedWhat's up with snow type tires on new trailers?

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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: What's up with snow type tires on new trailers?
    Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:20am
Recently I've noticed that a lot of new travel trailers are equipped with some very aggressive tread tires that appear to be snow tires (not so sure about the * rating).  What's the advantage of these tires aside from being kinda cool.  Do they have better traction on wet roads?  It would seem that they would be less stable because they appear to have less surface contact with the pavement.  Can they be used without chains in states that allow winter snow tires on trailers?  Is their load and speed rating better?  What's the story?

Just for curiosity, I've looked a little in the Internet for this type of tire and haven't found any for sale in places like e-trailer, Amazon, etc.  
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Fred & Maria Kearney
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:43am
Functionality-wise, I don't think it makes too much difference. Although off-road tires will often be rated higher (Like D or even E). They do look more gnarly.
bp
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 12:27pm
They would work good up here.................we usually get 10 months of winter and two month of bad skiing.  We had tires like that on a Flagstaff pop up that we started camping with. Would be nice on some of the remote state sites that we have.
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voisj View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:50pm
Having 4 wheel drive with snow tires my whole life, I can tell you that snow tires help and give way more traction on snow and mud, and shortens stopping distance and will hold a curve better in snow and mud on  slippery roads. (But Black Ice always wins).
During heavy snow in the Sierras it's chains (or cables) required on any highway, or 4 wheel drive with mud and snow tires, but you must carry chains with you. And all major highways going up have a checkpoint.
 But if chains are required and you are towing you must chain up the trailer no matter what your towing with even if you have snow tires on the trailer. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 11:55am
I think I should have stated my question more artfully.  I understand the difference for passenger and light truck all season (M&S) and winter rated snow tires with either the snow flake symbol or the snow flake symbol with mountain peaks.  I also understand that ST rated tires are specifically designed for trailers with heavier fabric and stronger wire so that they have stiffer sidewalls and can sustain higher air pressure, thus reducing trailer sway, and higher load capacities.  

What is not clear to me is what the the specifics are for the aggressive tread pattern tires that seem to be showing up on single axle lightweight travel trailers.  Do they actually qualify for the winter driving snow flake or mountain snow flake designation that makes them qualify as winter driving tires in places like Quebec, where winter driving tires with softer rubber compounds and aggressive tread designs are required?  Or are they just another version of all season M&S tire with a "gnarly" tread that looks cool.  Are they bias or radial ply?  What is the logic for putting on tires that look like winter snow tires when it is not very likely that many people will be using them in the snow for reasons other than the thrill of pulling a trailer on icy, slippery, snow covered roads?  (With black ice, chains or studs are the only thing that helps much.)  It would seem to me that regular all season M&S ST rated tires would be a better all around choice for rain wet pavement, dry pavement, and dirt roads that one would likely traverse when camping in the boondocks.  The reduction in the total surface contact with the pavement from the super aggressive tires would seem to reduce traction in rain wet or dry pavement conditions, especially with strong winds putting lateral loads on the trailer and tires.  For the few occasions where you have to drive in snow (unless you are a regular snow camper) it might be all around safer to carry chains and use them if required.

Bottom line, is this a marketing ploy to add to the temptation to buy a travel trailer that looks like it could go anywhere or is there a real advantage to this type of tire.  My suspicion, is that it's the former.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 3:03pm
I got hammered some time back for saying this.  The only thing "off road" that makes any difference is the higher ride height.  Even that is not nearly enough for a serious off roader.  If you look at most trailers with the gnarley tires they are given things like plastic diamond plate guards and knobby tires to market them to outdoorsey folks.  Even with the tires and risers the first creek crossing or boulder field the trailer will be at least stuck and more likely broken.  Personally I wouldn't want the noise and vibration from "off road" tires on the trailer.

Last spring I pulled our Pod over Donner pass in snow.  The enforcement folks were pleased with the tires on my 4X4 tow vehicle and never looked at the trailer.  I am surprised to hear trailers need to have chains on in mountain passes.  I have never seen a semi with chains on the trailer.

I see the chain guidelines from California and Nevada DOT semi trailers need chains on the outside rear tires (2, one on each side).  The diagrams also show trailers behind non commercial vehicles do not need chains.  Best suggestion is to check the rules for places you may be going in the snow.   have only pulled twice in snow: once as said over Donner Pass and once in the Big Horn mountains a few years ago.  If I can avoid it I will.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Keith-N-Dar

 The diagrams also show trailers behind non commercial vehicles do not need chains.  Best suggestion is to check the rules for places you may be going in the snow.   


I looked up the Chain requirement CADOT link and in the notes (#3) it says,
 
"• Trailers with brakes must have chains on one axle." The diagrams don't show this.

I worked in Tahoe for two years and drove out to Kirkwood with a trailer every day while building homes there. Got denied on Luther Pass and bought cable chains and all was good. Only had to use them 2 other times. I now carry them in the pod during the winter just in case. But most likely I would wait it out somewhere.

It makes sense to me that if your towing a trailer with brakes without chains, and your TV has chains and you hit the brakes on an icy corner, the trailer will slide out to the side if the trailer brakes lock up on the snow.
 And to attempt to answer Lostagain's original question. Aggressive tread tires do not hydroplane as easily as street tires when there is lots of water on the road.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 9:39am
Stands to reason. "Most" of the time, the trailer is just following along. The only time the trailer actually needs traction is when braking and/or cornering. So during icy/snowy/rainy/muddy situations, a more aggressive tread pattern might be needed.

Now for a controversial subject, let's talk about how much we need nitro filled tires?
bp
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 10:12am
Voisj, thanks for your reply.  I looked into the that issue as well when I first posted my question.  Hydroplaning is less of a concern than other factors such as load capacity, sidewall stiffness, and ability to maintain a much higher air pressure in the tire.  Optimal hydroplaning protection, according to some of the articles I read, is achieved with a relatively deep directional V pattern tread.  This is not what the trailer sellers are putting on the new trailers and I suspect they are not really worried about trailer hydroplaning.

The principle factor in hydroplaning, assuming you have properly inflated tires that have adequate tread depth, is excessive speed for conditions.  Granted hydroplaning can occur at speeds as low as about 35 or 40, it is usually the front wheels that are most affected as they are the first wheels to hit the water, are controlling direction of travel.  The following tires have the benefit of the water being somewhat pushed out of the way by the leading tires.  Thus, when towing in inclement weather, especially with slick road conditions, the first thing one would want to do is slow down to a speed consistent being able to safely transit though the conditions encountered.  

In addition, since a trailer is being pulled, as opposed to controlling the direction of travel, it seems to me that it should be less susceptible to the adverse effects of any degree of hydroplaning that may occur, unless you are going so fast around a curve that the centrifugal force., combined with the loss of traction on the pavement, allows the trailer to whip out from behind the TV.  Again, that would suggest that someone is driving a lot faster than is safe for conditions.

I looked all over for ST rated "off road" tires and found none, at least not in any relevant sizes for r-Pods.  What I did find was that it appears that many manufactures are offering "off-road" tires as an option, but they appear to be standard LT design that have a lower load capacity, less sturdy side walls and lower air pressure, thus do not provide the benefits designed into ST rated tires.  

I think Keith is right that the real "off road" factor for a trailer is in axle ground clearance.  All the cool diamond plating, big gnarly all terrain tires and such are more for appearance than function.  Even with the 2 inch OEM lift I put into our Pod so I wouldn't scrape the driveway, I would never take the trailer out in true off road conditions no matter what tires I had on it.  Without raising the axel out of harm's way, the tires aren't going to make any difference.  

I keep coming back to the conclusion that it is a marketing strategy that has nothing to do with performance.  If, as I suspect, trailer manufacturers are selling trailers with LT tires, some smart lawyer is going to nail them big time for a "design defect" when his/her client has an accident that can be shown to have been avoidable had the proper ST tires had been installed.  


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Fred & Maria Kearney
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Tars Tarkas View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Now for a controversial subject, let's talk about how much we need nitro filled tires?

Nitrogen?  I use a 78% blend.

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