V8 or V6 Twin Turbo pickup? |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Topic: V8 or V6 Twin Turbo pickup? Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 3:58pm |
Yep GG, I only need to know about Toyota Highlanders. I just make my decisions randomly by the seat of my pants. Like this guy.
Ignore the fact that EB engines have two separate fuel injection systems and two turbochargers, not to mention variable valve timing (yes I know the Highlander has vvt too) all run by computers. All that stuff is going to last forever and never break. Of course not, Ford says so. I think I have it now. It must be the f150 Ecoboost cult. Turbocharged engine pickup trucks, what could possibly be better? Why would anyone want a normally aspirated SUV, haul with a utility trailer, keep their vehicles forever, and work on them themselves? That couldn't possibly be a better fit for anyone's needs. Eco non booster |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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Rosie
Newbie Joined: 17 Sep 2015 Location: Bend Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 1:36pm |
I have a 2012 F150 with the 3.5 EB engine. It now has about 160K. Has had no real issues since new. Gets 18- 20 when not towing and about 10 average towing, regular fuel. Everywhere we go has at least one mountain pass to concur. As far as maintenance goes I have had to replace the plugs twice. It will not go the 100K. 60K on originals and 75k on second set. Have been happy with the power and ride of this truck. Always use synthetic oil, especially with the turbos, 10K between changes. Intercooler was replaced early on under warranty. Truth be known it likely just needed plugs. Anyway that is what I know.
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2653 |
Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 10:13am |
If you want to talk about reliability, turbos are not the issue. They just don't fail all that often.
If you are comparing the V6 to the V8, the latest iteration of the coyote has been having significant issues with oil consumption. It's apparently a process problem with the plasma-coated cylinders. To each his own. OG likes his Highlander, and that's all he needs to know.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 6:20am |
Well we can certainly agree that we are going around in circles. Potatos, potahtos. I for one am not advocating for either engine. I simply stated a personal preference. If I was going to advocate for an engine it would be electric. That's ready for many uses but not for long distance trailer towing, so I won't do that on this forum. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 10:59pm |
No, turbos are not for everyone. Reporting one's experience does not mean that it is one is advocating that everyone must have a turbo any more than advocating that you like a traditionally aspirated engine means that everyone must use the engine of your choice. This is going around in circles.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 7:45pm |
All that old engine tech had very poor reliability by today's standards. If your implication is that an engine has to have a turbocharger or two to be "modern", I don't accept that at all. As I've pointed out before the most efficient ICE vehicles on the road are normally aspirated. They utilize other technology to achieve their objectives. All ICE technology is a dead end now for that matter.
EPA f150 fuel economy Coyote 5.0 and EB3.5 have essentially the same fuel economy and annual fuel cost. Driving style is much more significant. As you point out. If you want to save significant fuel and still want the range get a hybrid. If you really want to save fuel, get an EV and quit long distance towing. If you love your turbo then keep what you have and enjoy, just accept that that's not for everyone. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 6:54pm |
If you want a simple engine, how about going back to the old Willys L134 flathead 4 with its single barrel carburetor? Or going back to engines with magnetos instead of generators?
When overhead valves were introduced, people resisted and preferred the older flathead design. Same for fuel injection vs. the carburetor and electronic ignition as opposed to points and condensers. Every innovation in engine technology has it detractors who like the older simpler systems while others prefer the higher efficiency of the newer technology.
OG, your mileage assertion is not exactly right. I suggested the turbos get slightly better mileage, a mile or two per gallon. That is exactly what the EPA says too. There is a mpg difference for both city and highway driving. Over the service life of the engine, that adds up to a lot of gas. Of course, driving style can affect mileage, but the EPA data is the most reliable available and compares apples to apples in its procedures. I actually exceed the EPA numbers for highway driving by 3 mpg, according to the onboard data center. As for engine reliability, with the warranty I bought, that's Ford's problem, not mine. I have a warranty on all the major systems of the vehicle for 150K miles or until I am 80. I don't think I'm going to worry about engine repairs but instead will worry about getting reservations in too full campgrounds in the post Covid (hopefully) rush to resume a normal life. |
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 5:14pm |
But the 3.5EB has not been more reliable than the 5.0 Coyote, to compare the two roughly equivalent Ford alternatives. Other brands might offer higher reliability.
As recently as the prior generation, 3.5EB's have had timing chain and intake valve issues. The Coyote hasn't had any particular standout reliability issues. Then there is the potential for more problems as the engines reach a couple hundred thousand miles or more. Some folks don't keep their vehicles that long so it's unimportant to them, others do. Cost of replacing just the turbos is well north of $2k. Neither engine is going to be a significant standout towing a light trailer like an rpod. Also according to the EPA the fuel economy of the two engines is essentially identical, so you would never get back the cost difference. If I was in the market of an ICE truck (I'm not) I'd stick with the a normally aspirated option. That's my opinion. It's not a disparagement of what others choose. Y'all enjoy your forced induction engines. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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campman
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2021 Location: La Salle, MB Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 5:00pm |
For me, the twin turbo hybrid with a big battery would be a great combination.
Andy |
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Andy and Laurie
'16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2653 |
Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 4:17pm |
That may have been "historically: true for early boosted engines. The early GM ones in particular were just plain disasters. However, almost all long haul diesel tractors are boosted, and they last routinely in the neighborhood of 1,000,000 miles. The key is beefing up the crankshaft and main journals. If you look at the 2.7L and 3.5L EcoBoost engines, they have very beefy main journals with 6-bolt mains. That is extremely unusually in a gas engine, but maybe not so much in a diesel. The V6 EcoBoost engines have been very, very reliable.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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