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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battery current draw
    Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 6:22am
Colorado r-pod guy, glad you found your stray load and its in the normal range.

One thing you should consider is how to keep your battery charged while your rig is in storage.  I see from earlier in the thread that you bring your battery home if its going to be more than about a week before you use it again. That's good, because lead acid batteries shouldn't go more than about a week without being charged.  I'd suggest you also consider getting a battery charger and keeping it on float charge while you have it at home.

Alternatively, if you can keep the trailer on ac power or install a small solar charger so it was being charged at your storage site you wouldn't need to remove the battery.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 9:29pm
Regarding the stray load, I measured and found out that it is only about .1 amps, so not a major concern.  Probably just the propane detector (my CO and smoke detectors are on 9v batteries).  Enough to kill a battery over time, but that is why I am installing a battery cut-off.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 8:57am
One other important concept to remember is that your batteries are being recharged by the solar input.  so you are using X amount of power and putting Y amount back in from the solar panel.  Even though x may be bigger than Y, as long as you keep your batteries above 50% discharge, you are still good. For example, At the beginning of the trip you are at 100%,. Day 1 you use 20% and recharge 15%, so you are only down 5%. The next day is the same-now you are down a total of 10%. Using this example of losing only 5% daily , you can theoretically go for 10 days losing 5% and still be at 50% charged.
Batteries are made to be discharged and then recharged. They don't have to be 100% to be usable.
Vann

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 4:34am
Yes Colorado rpod Guy, sorry we hijacked your thread. Your daily heater use alone would be probably about half of the available capacity of a single Group 24 battery and most of the output of a 100 watt solar module.

The dual GC2s is a great starting point but I will add one caution, and that is tongue weight. That mod will add about 65-70 lbs, essentially all on the hitch, so do confirm to yourself that works with your rig and towing setup. I didnt check that first with my rig and was surprised to find I was at about 570lbs afterwards fully loaded on my 179. Had to relocate some supplies aft in the trailer to rebalance.

Also, looking back through the thread, you thought there was a significant stray load somewhere, did you ever resolve that?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 5:31pm
That is the clarification I was after.  Many thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Colorado r-pod guy

This is all very educational, but, I'm still not sure how much power I need.  Based on my desire to run the set the thermostat to 50 degrees on 20-30 degree nights it sounds like a 100 watt panel is not going to be enough.


Correct. If you are going to be out for more then 2 nights, you need more storage and more charge capacity.

The most storage you can put on the tongue, without modifications, is a pair of GC2 6v batteries wired in series. Very popular mod. For recharging, a 120watt or larger system, preferably portable so you can do as much as you can to maximize sun angle.

What I would recommend, is to do the GC2's first, $225 or so for the whole shebang, and go out and see how well just that mod will do for the way you intend to camp. Remember during the testing and learning phase, a set of jumper cables and your truck will recharge you to 80-85% pretty darn fast if needed. You may find that for the number of days you want to be out and the conditions, just the battery upgrade will be enough. Going to dual GC's from the standard group 24 12v battery will net you nearly 4x the usable amps, or watts, or blower fan revolutions, or whatever method of measuring your needs you choose to use.

Always remember, there is always more then one way to skin a cat, and while there may be a "perfect and correct way", as long as YOU are happy with how the cat got skinned, it's all good. It's camping, not a Mars mission. Good enough, is in fact, good enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 1:00pm
This is all very educational, but, I'm still not sure how much power I need.  Based on my desire to run the set the thermostat to 50 degrees on 20-30 degree nights it sounds like a 100 watt panel is not going to be enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 5:38am
BTW, I've interviewed numerous EE grads who couldn't explain ohm's law to me. They could write C++ code in their sleep though, but what that has to do with electrical engineering is beyond me. Do they even train anyone in electrical power systems engineering anymore? 

In case you're wondering, my degree is in physics, which means I know just enough to be dangerous in all kinds of areas. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 5:27am
Exactly! You size batteries by amp hours. Battery state of charge is determined by amp hours, not watt hours. Now we're making progress!

Batteries are the core energy storage element of any off grid power system. Batteries rule, voltage is established by the battery. Everything else is either a load drawing current from or a source feeding current into that energy storage element. The source could be (and in the case of our trailers, is frequently a hybrid of all three) a battery charger, an alternator, or a PV module. It's all about the amp hours clocking in and out. 

So, in order to use amp hours to size the battery but watt hours for the loads and power generation sources you have to use I=P/V to convert units at some point into amps and amp hours so you know what your battery state of charge is.  And you have to know the battery voltage to do that if you work in watts and watt hours. That voltage is not the same during charge and discharge cycles. You don't need to worry about that if you're working in amps and amp hours. Takes care of itself. 

So, I'm still waiting to hear from those of you who prefer to work in watts and watt hours, how you are dealing with variable battery voltage? Are you using derate factors for battery round trip efficiency? What are they? How about for PV charge performance? Temperature derates? Do you figure your other charge sources in watts too?  Alternator output? Battery charger output? And please don't tell me you just use ohm's law. Of course you do. But things aren't quite that simple....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 3:45pm
Ya got me beat in years since graduation but I won’t yield on solar experience...

Like I said, you can use watts and watt hours to do solar sizing, as long as you use the appropriate derate factors for battery and PV module performance. It’s just much easier using amp hours.
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