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Topic Closed4-cyl towing thoughts?
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TrailerTrish View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4-cyl towing thoughts?
    Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 9:53pm
But what do these numbers mean? I understand them in terms of absolute numbers (h x w =area) but how does it relate?  Is there a chart that you plug these numbers into and get a result? Is there something that says that a certain car should only tow a max number of square feet? I don’t quite understand what you do with them. Thanks. 
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TrailerTrish View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by furpod

But.. she needs separate sleeping areas.. I was going to suggest a T@B also, I know they tow easy, belong to a T@B group and go to the occasional rally still..

 T@Bs are adorable but just too small, too. My husband is 6’2”. Has to be something he can stand up and move around in.  That’s where the A-frame is a stand out (if you’ll pardon the pun).  Roof peak must be something like 10 feet. There’s like zero storage, no floor space, nowhere for a potty, but the cubic footage is enormous. 
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6297 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 7:22am
I did find some information about Subaru Towing Information. It addresses weight but not frontal area and only goes up to the 2012 model year. Still, the page contains some information. Hard Towing is defined under the Tribeca as "Hard towing (hot, uphill, no trailer brakes, no trans cooler)."

I could not find anything about frontal area limits. However, the better place to ask would be in the Subaru Outback forum.
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Posts: 80 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 7:59am
To Trailer Trish
Some TV manufacturers give a spec to limit the frontal area of the trailer you tow (or risk jeopardizing  your warrantee and liability) . It has to do with the additional stress on the TV created by wind resistance at highway speeds. It is just another facet of towing that would argue to maximize your tow vehicle capability.
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crankster78 View Drop Down
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Posts: 163 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 8:20am
Greetings
It's not just the engine, It's the brakes, axles, suspension, transmission and wheelbase.  No general standards for towing by the auto makers. Think of the entire rig as a whole if  you are going  to tow  an RV.   You want a safe and reliable set up. 

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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2631 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 10:05am
Originally posted by TrailerTrish

But what do these numbers mean? I understand them in terms of absolute numbers (h x w =area) but how does it relate?  Is there a chart that you plug these numbers into and get a result? Is there something that says that a certain car should only tow number of square feet? I don’t quite understand what you do with them. Thanks. 
That does not have a simple answer. In aircraft, they measure drag versus a "flat plate", and until you run wind tunnel tests, you will never know. The actual frontal area of an object is not the end-all be-all answer, because the overall shape of a thing will affect how it goes through the air.

This gives a good overview of wind resistance versus frontal area. In particular, look at the "practical example" toward the end of this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
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TrailerTrish View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 7:15pm
I haven’t disappeared; I have been plugging in numbers. I still come back to where I was before. I think that if you look at the hard numbers, what we have and what we want to tow are within acceptable parameters. The problem comes in with differences of opinion on how much the wind loading is an issue, discussions about CVT transmissions, Subaru engines, things like that. But the basic payload numbers are OK as best I can see.  We don’t take a lot of stuff along – we don’t have sporting equipment and things like that. Also, hitch weight was mentioned, but the particular Pod I’m looking at is just dandy. It comes in at 184 pounds and the Subaru max is 200.  The older ones are a lot lighter than the new ones.
We drove out to the nearest R-Pod dealership Wednesday, over an hour’s drive, just to see what one looks like and feels like up close. And I agree that even the new 171 is way too big and too heavy. But the 2010 173s are a different animal. What I want to do is gut the whole thing, so I’m wondering whether getting some of that weight out would make a big difference in the equation. I’d like to pull out the heavy particleboard cabinets and rebuild the whole thing with a lighter weight wood. And the question comes up whether that would affect the strength of the body.  I assume that the bathroom and kitchen structures provide some sort of shear to keep the body from flexing too much.  If so and if I left the bathroom walls intact and just redid the kitchen side, might that be enough shear? 
Another thing I keep thinking abt is Europe. Yup. I’ve been looking at a lot of British caravan sites, and they pull trailers much bulkier than the R-pod with cars that are much smaller than our Outback. What’s with that? Britain doesn’t have mountains like we do, but they have some very substantial hills. 
 Opinions appreciated.  :)
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6297 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 7:28pm
I'm not really sure you would come out much lighter by gutting and rebuilding the inside. They already use lightweight materials and if a particular area is heavier, it probably needs to be. I also agree that the interior cabinetry adds to the stiffness of the trailer. You could take an empty box and push on it and see that. Add items inside and it stiffens the basic box. What you would need to do to lighten up and maintain the proper stiffness is well beyond my areas of experience, so I can't help you there.

You have put a lot of effort and thought into this. I am glad you found an older model that is lighter. I hope it works out for you and your husband.
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Ben Herman View Drop Down
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Posts: 355 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 7:32pm
 Not sure what else to add - if you google around a bit about cvt transmissions and towing up significant grades you'll see that the recommended weights are well below the published max capacity. My experience and that of many others is that ideally I'd be towing somewheres around 70% or so of the tow vehicle's max capacity, to allow for hills w/o significant strain. If you are really set on doing this go for it, but not sure you'll find any enthusiasm from this crowd. 

Please take this in a positive spirit; my experience is that members of this forum are eager to help and would be cheering you on if we thought otherwise. 

Your other questions about weight, structural integrity and such - really can't offer any help on that, without knowing the older 173s. I do alot of furniture and cabinet-building though and while what you are suggesting would make some difference, you might only be talking about maybe 100 lbs or so difference at the most, unless you go really high end like honeycomb plywood, but cost would be considerable.

All I have to offer - if it were my rig, I wouldn't do it, but only you can decide.
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Posts: 1447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 7:58pm
I stayed out of this on purpose.  In my opinion you are proposing to do something that at best will perform poorly and at worst will present a clear danger to you and others around you when things get out of control.  I don't know what you are going to replace the interior with that will weigh less and still work. 

I wish you well.  You have been given pages of sound reasons not to tow a high profile trailer with your choice of TV.  You are unconvinced, so do what you want to.  You will anyway.
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