The Kitchen Sink |
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DavMar
Senior Member Joined: 04 Aug 2017 Location: Lexington, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 592 |
Topic: The Kitchen Sink Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:37pm |
I’m beginning to think my Pod was built on a Monday
morning or late Friday afternoon since it seems like it’s one thing after
another I have to repair. At least I’m getting an education on RV repairs even
if it’s the hard way! My newest repair adventure is on the kitchen sink and the
reason why I’m posting this information is to hopefully prevent some other Pod
owner having the same trouble. I don’t know what earlier model R-Pods kitchen
sinks are made out of or how they are mounted on the counter? Though if you
have a late model Pod that has a stainless-steel sink that is mounted under the
kitchen counter you just might want to take some time and look at how its
mounted. It now my humble opinion that Forest River has made two major mistakes
in their quest to maximize profits with the first being the substrate of the
kitchen counter is made of Particle Board. Particle Board is fine product as
long as it never ever gets wet but if it ever does it just sucks up water and
sadly breaks down which is why in a camper trailer it’s a lousy product to use
for a kitchen counter substrate. The second BIG fault that FR has done is how
they mounting the kitchen sink and why if you have a Pod with an under the counter
sink you need to take a look. For whatever misguided reasons FR only used eight
wood square driver screws and only the lip of these screws holds the sink in
place, crazy! All these screws need to be installed perfectly and if the just a
couple are not or the silicon seal around the sink fails and lets water in between
the sink lip and the Particle Board you’re in trouble! My wife first noticed the sink had dropped on one of our
camping trips and when we came home, I discovered FR terrible way of how they
installed the sink. At that time, I just removed some of the mounting screws and
installed some steel washers on the screws and reattached. Recently we returned
from a trip where the cold-water supply in the bathroom sink faucet quit
working. After removing the valve and blowing out the line I discovered some
strange grit that somehow had gotten into the cold-water line and cleared that
problem up. When I finished that repair I glanced at the kitchen sink and said
what the heck when I discovered the sink cover board was not flush with the
counter top. On further examination I found that the sink had dropped again off its mounting screws and worse had
allowed a good amount of water to seep into the counter Particle Board. I want
to stress my wife or I in no way misused or overfilled our sink but we all know
that these little camper trailers take a pounding as we tow them down the road
and it doesn’t take much water infiltration to start the Particle Board from
breaking down. I ended up removing the kitchen sink and was amazed at
how much water the Particle Board has sucked up and its now sad condition
around the opening for the sink. I had to sand around the sink opening because
of the Particle Board has swelled so badly before I reinstalled the sink. I removed
the old caulk from the sink and put a new bead of silicon calk on its lip
before I reinstalled the sink. I also used larger fender washers on each of the
eight screws that attach the sink but because of the water damage to the Particle
Board I wasn’t satisfied with the screws holding and this repair. What I ended up doing is buying some
1/8” thick by ¾” wide aluminum bar stock and making eight mounting brackets for
the sink which is what should have been done in the first place by FR. Let me
tell you it was quite the contortion act getting my body under the kitchen
counter to mount these brackets but its now done and hopefully I will never
have to worry about this problem again. |
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Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the
wonder dog. 2017 Rpod 180 2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4 Lexington, NC |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6326 |
Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:03pm |
The change to a stainless steel undermount sink happened at the mid 2016 model year change. Ours is a 2016 and came with a plastic top-mount sink. If you look in my mods, you will see the stainless steel top-mount sink that replaced it as well as the faucet that replaced the cheap one that came with the R-Pod. You are not the only one to have trouble with the undermount sink. We met another couple and were comparing R-Pod mods. When we went into his, the sink had dropped. He had a gallon jug of water sitting in the sink while going down the road and the weight was too much for the silicone sealant and screws. I am not sure how he fixed it. I would think that a top-mount sink will almost always be stronger during the rolling earthquake that happens as we go down the road.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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Happy Tripping
Senior Member Joined: 27 May 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 473 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 3:18am |
I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. after I read your post, I looked at our older model r-pod 171 and thankfully it's sink is mounted above the counter top. The caulking needs, and will get immediate attention! The design and installation of your sink sounds like an accident waiting to happen. It reminds me of GM after the bean counters took over and quality became subordinated to cost.
In my view, the initial r-pod 171 and 172s were based on a time proven design with almost all of the kinks already worked out. Since then, with added things like slideouts and increased length, remedies of problems have been on the fly, as they arose. This sink situation is an example! I left our particle board table out overnight once and an unexpected very light mist led to major swelling of the edges of the table, luckily not so bad that I had to do significant repair, but VERY impressive. A particle board counter kitchen counter with a sink on top may be ok IF the faucet and lines don't leak and IF the caulking is replaced regularly. I don't see this happening with such a poorly designed and poorly installed undercounter sink! Unfortunately, it's too late for a lot of people like you. |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 6:11am |
Sorry about all the problems.
I hate to say this but the easiest and least expensive solution is probably just to remove the undercounter sink and install a drop in sink before the countertop is compromised. They should cost less than $100 and you could take the opportunity to upgrade the crummy faucet and the same time.
If the countertop has been damaged but not too bad one fix I've used coming from my boating experience to deal with materials that get frequently wet but shouldn't is to use one of the new water tolerant epoxies to seal the surfaces. West Systems g-flex for example. Not cheap material but if you grind down the swollen surfaces/edges of particle board/osb/mdf materials and then give them a thick coating of g-flex it will adhere even if the "wood" is still a little damp and won't let any more water wick in there. Its also flexible so doesn't develop cracks that can let more water in. If the "board" has swollen too dramatically (it can literally double in thickness) then unfortunately its probably time to remove and replace the countertop with some real exterior grade plywood, a new (lightweight-not granite!) work surface of your choice, and a drop in sink. That sounds terrible but its really not such a bad or expensive job for a small area like an rpod kitchen, and you'll have a proper installation with a nice custom look at the end of it. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 7:58am |
+1 to offgrid's suggestions. I have used epoxy on rotten wood, Get-Rot was the brand many years ago and it worked really well. Any product from West=Systems will be of outstanding quality, so go for the g-flex and you'll probably be happy.
We are fortunate to have the old drop in plastic sink [in fact, the other day I was eying a SS drop in replacement on sale for about $75] but we've had water intrusion problems along the edging of the counter top. Water has gotten into the crack between the Formica and the edging strip and swollen the particle board very slightly. At the suggestion of my wife, we put a strip of 3/8ths thick 1 1/2" plexiglass between the sink and the edge to keep the water from running off. Her concern was it could get on the upholstery. It is clear and runs next to the sink to the forward edge from the backsplash.. I glued it down and it has effectively eliminated the problem. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would ever put an undermount sink on anything that can't be wet. Water is going to get in no matter how well you think you've sealed it. They look nice, but unless they're on stone or one of the solid plastic faux stone counters, they will eventually deteriorate any wood product substrates.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 10:03am |
Its called sales and marketing. Sales probably complained that customers were shopping elsewhere because they wanted an undermount sink just like they had at home, not that ugly old fashioned drop in sink. Then marketing did a survey or competitor swot analysis or some such and decided that was a feature that would sell more trailers. No matter that a trailer kitchen and a home kitchen aren't the same thing.The engineering, manufacturing, and service people probably didn't get much of a say in the matter, if any. And all too often thats how that goes....
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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DavMar
Senior Member Joined: 04 Aug 2017 Location: Lexington, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 592 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 1:16pm |
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about the
problem I’ve had with the under mounted kitchen sink. You all passed on some
great idea’s on how to repair and resolve the problem. It didn’t occur to me to
use an epoxy-based product to stop decomposition with the Particle Board. If
my solution of using fender washers and under the counter brackets that I made and re-caulking
doesn’t work out then I will use such a product to stop the Particle Board decomposition and convert to a drop-in sink. Of course, I also think maybe the ultimate solution is to
completely remove the counter top and replace it with a Corian counter top with
the integrated molded in sink. Being that the counter in my 180 isn’t that large I’m sure
a competent counter top shop can build a replacement out of this or a similar
material for a reasonable price. |
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Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the
wonder dog. 2017 Rpod 180 2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4 Lexington, NC |
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marwayne
Senior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2011 Location: Edmonton AB Can Online Status: Offline Posts: 1002 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 1:50pm |
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 5:01pm |
marwayne, would you mind dropping down to Dayton, NV this winter when it's too cold in the north of Canada? Last time ai was in Edmonton it was a Feb a few years back before I retired and it was way too cold. You could help me with all kinds of improvements in my 172 .
Seriously, though, you have done some incredibly nice work. I like the drop down on the stove side of the galley. I had added one over on the other side of the sink, but I'm lazy and just used a conveniently sized cutting board. I also did the pedestal mount for the table. It sure makes getting in and out of the dinette easier.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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marwayne
Senior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2011 Location: Edmonton AB Can Online Status: Offline Posts: 1002 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 6:01pm |
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
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