Weight Distribution Hitches |
Post Reply | Page <1 2345> |
Author | |
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Weight Distribution Hitches Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 1:33am |
understand that helper springs and wdhs perform entirely different functions.
Get a wdh to redistribute the load between your 3 axles. That's important if needed. Get helper springs to stabilize the rear axle. That too is important if needed. Neither one will in any way increase your load capacity, that's set by the manufacturer. Helper springs do nothing to put weight back on the front axle or to reduce load on the rear axle, because they don't create any torque to counter the moment produced by the trailer. WDHs don't stabilize the rear axle because they don't reduce lateral forces, only vertical. (The wdhs that combine sway control do improve rig lateral stability, but that's yet a 3rd function). In my opinion, there is no reason to add either helper springs or a wdh or anything else simply to level the TV. It's designed to squat when loaded. Having a level TV is a cosmetic issue. If your headlights are out of adjustment then adjust them, much easier than fooling around with hitches or helper springs. If you're bottoming out then you're overloaded, relocate or reduce your load. I suppose you might want add helper springs for improved ground clearance though. StephenH is correct, if you have helper springs of any type, and that includes adjustable air springs, you need to set them up first and then adjust the wdh to obtain the proper front axle load. If you try to do it the other way around your wdh tension will be screwed up when you adjust the helper springs. Heres an example of how things can go wrong. Say you have air springs and use them to level the TV with the trailer attached. Then you decide you still need a wdh because of squirrely handling. So you add the wdh and adjust it by the book to get the front axle load back up. Oops now guess what, the TV is no longer level, it's pointing down in front. So you let some air out of the air suspension to get it back to level. What are you left with? You just dropped the height of the ball so increased the tension on the wdh springs. So now you have too much load on the front axle and trailer axle. So, go back and readjust the wdh one more time. Then quit fiddling around and go camping. For myself, I never bothered with helper springs even though my Highlander squatted some with the trailer on. I wasnt worried about the squat because I knew everything was within load specs. My rear axle sway and stability was fine towing and I didn't want to change the ride and handling in normal non towing use. I didn't have ground clearance issues and never bottomed out. I adjusted my headlights down a little so they didn't blind folks with the trailer on but I could still see fine without it. Good enough for me. |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
jato
Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Location: Kewadin, MI Online Status: Offline Posts: 3252 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 7:22am |
Phew, that is quite the epistle! And here all I do is hook up a 177 on the hitch, add a simple $ 40 Curt friction bar to the mix and go.
|
|
God's pod
'11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
|
gpokluda
Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Location: NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 327 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 7:58am |
OG, not questioning your explanation or scientific analysis, however it seems contradictory to recommendations from some manufacturers, namely Escape where we just purchased our trailer. They highly recommend a level rig front to back especially with the fifth wheel models. Is it because of the tandem axle configuration? I find it highly unlikely that they are recommending a level aspect for cosmetic reasons. Again, not trying to start an argument.
|
|
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023) 2022 Escape 5.0TA 2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB Kawasaki KLR650 |
|
hogone
Senior Member Joined: 09 Apr 2013 Location: St. Louis Online Status: Offline Posts: 1049 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 10:35am |
an epistle??!! i would say the a creed!!! dam, I dont even use a friction/sway bar. jon
|
|
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177 2010 F150 2017 HD Streetglide 2009 HD Lowrider CHEESEHEAD |
|
GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2653 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 11:14am |
Not to be argumentative, but using a WDH on a 5th wheel is not possible; at least with all the 5th wheels I know. The load point for a 5th wheel is MOL on top of the rear axle, so it changes the weight distribution equation from a completely different perspective.
|
|
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 11:16am |
Epistle? Let's just say its an opinion and
call it good.. Gpokluda, no disagreement I don't think. I think the Escape folks were probably talking about getting the trailer level. I agree with that. That has lots of benefits, one of which is so you can climb in and sleep flat while on the road without having to fool with the tongue jack. I was referring to the TV not needing to be level. You can pretty easily get the trailer level by just adjusting the ball height. To get the TV level without overtensioning the wdh is probably going to require helper springs or an air lift kit. |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
gpokluda
Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Location: NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 327 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 11:54am |
GlueGuy. Really? I didn't know that just having towed our new Escape 5th wheel 1500 miles back home from Canada. I guess I better send the new E2 back. Explains why I couldn't hook it up
|
|
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023) 2022 Escape 5.0TA 2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB Kawasaki KLR650 |
|
gpokluda
Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Location: NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 327 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 12:14pm |
Well, no actually they are talking about the rig in total; TV and Trailer being level. Additionally, while putting a packet of instructions together for the new owner of our Rpod, I came across the Fastway setup instructions for the E2 hitch. The setup is pretty clear that, with the TV and trailer loaded as they would be for a normal trip, the distance between the trailer frame rails to the ground should be equal front and back and the distance from wheel opening to ground on the TV front and back should likewise be equal. To me, that means the TV and the trailer are level as a unit. Anyway, I have no dog in this fight since at 10am MST, our 179 left with its new owner for new adventures. My final thought is this: Level and balance are mostly good things and my gut and experience tell me that this applies to RVs. Yep, there are outliers in any distribution but for the most part, the norm is good. If the manufacturer of a trailer and the manufacturer of the hitch system recommend level with while staying within the weight capacity of both the TV and the trailer, it is probably a good idea to follow those recommendations. Maybe we are saying the same thing, maybe not. I'm out.
|
|
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023) 2022 Escape 5.0TA 2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB Kawasaki KLR650 |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 8:42am |
Well I'm puzzled by what you're referring to.
I looked up the Fastway E2 round bar hitch instructions on their website and saw the same procedure we've been discussing: measure the TV front axle height before and after hitching the trailer and try to get after to be at least halfway back down to before and preferably all the way back but no further. Then after thats done they tell you to adjust the ball height to get the trailer level. sounds right to me... |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 9:32am |
For the Fastway e2 round bar, here is the setup manual: https://www.fastwaytrailer.com/pdf/e2-round-bar-hitch-instructions.pdf
If the WDH is properly adjusted the front height is either equal the unladen position or up to half the distance between the position of the front with no WDH while the trailer is hooked up and the unladen position. There is a sweet spot that is described in the manual. If the front position is higher than the sweet spot, then not enough weight is being transferred to the front and the torsion bars needed adjusting per the instruction manual. If the front is below the sweet spot, then too much weight is being transferred to the front axle requiring a different adjustment to the torsion bars. As OG suggests, it seems the ideal is reaching the same front height position as the unladen TV, but not below it. Presumably the TV before loading is more or less "level" with the ground, but different' suspension vary so the pre and post loading measurements are critical. The instruction also discuss the position of the trailer pointing out that it should also be more or less level with the ground and that the hitch head inside top on the trailer should be even with what would be the top of the hitch ball, or very slightly above it. They have a nice diagram to illustrate it. See figure 1, page 10. And last but not least, be sure to attach all the warning stickers they give you so that you can wear them off from normal use and other users can blame you for their failure to read the manual.
|
|
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
|
Post Reply | Page <1 2345> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |