Heretical Thoughts on "Winterizing"

I have a heretical thought (one of many, being a procrastinator, trained in the sciences, and somewhat averse to work that isn't needed):
Why is is necessary to add antifreeze to the various tanks under the Pod for the winter?
My general chemistry courses from many years ago learned me about the colligative properties of solutions (if you add particles to a liquid mixture or solution, it changes the physical propoerties of the solution). This is why a water and ice mixture is colder when one adds salt to the mixture. When water and water based solutions freeze, they expand. So we have the experience of pipes bursting in the winter (in the northern part of the country, I know this isn't a problem on San Padre Island!). However, pipes burst because the ice has no where to go but out, and so the pipe or tubing is split open. The same phenomenon occurs when one makes ice cubes in the freezer, only now the water can expand and the tray doesn't burst - because there is no top on the ice cube tray.
So, in effect the black, gray and fresh water tanks under the pod are large ice cube trays. We don't store them full to the top over the winter, most of us empty them completely - or as completely as we can. Therefore, any freezing of the contents is going to be of a minor quantity of liquid (and the black tank has a high level of particles in it and may not freeze until very, very cold.:) ) That means there is really not any problem with tanks bursting.
So why dump expensive pink stuff in the tanks, worry about contaminating the drinking water supply on your pod or making a mess of your hot water heater? Or keeping the black tank sludge in a liquid state?
The same could be pointed out about the water tubing. If one uses air to blow out the lines, thus emptying them, why fill them back up with the pink stuff only to flush it away in the spring? If you leave the faucets and shower open and the HW heater anode out, there is plenty of room for any residual water to expand and not burst the PEX tubing due to the pressure buildup.

Maybe I miss something, but we seem to spend hours (and dollars) winterizing and de-winterizing, when perhaps it isn't necessary.
Walt

Originally posted by Podsible Dream I have a heretical thought (one of many, being a procrastinator, trained in the sciences, and somewhat averse to work that isn't needed): Why is is necessary to add antifreeze to the various tanks under the Pod for the winter? My general chemistry courses from many years ago learned me about the colligative properties of solutions (if you add particles to a liquid mixture or solution, it changes the physical propoerties of the solution). This is why a water and ice mixture is colder when one adds salt to the mixture. When water and water based solutions freeze, they expand. So we have the experience of pipes bursting in the winter (in the northern part of the country, I know this isn't a problem on San Padre Island!). However, pipes burst because the ice has no where to go but out, and so the pipe or tubing is split open. The same phenomenon occurs when one makes ice cubes in the freezer, only now the water can expand and the tray doesn't burst - because there is no top on the ice cube tray. So, in effect the black, gray and fresh water tanks under the pod are large ice cube trays. We don't store them full to the top over the winter, most of us empty them completely - or as completely as we can. Therefore, any freezing of the contents is going to be of a minor quantity of liquid (and the black tank has a high level of particles in it and may not freeze until very, very cold.:) ) That means there is really not any problem with tanks bursting. So why dump expensive pink stuff in the tanks, worry about contaminating the drinking water supply on your pod or making a mess of your hot water heater? Or keeping the black tank sludge in a liquid state? I can just about guarantee that my tanks are not 100% empty - I don't think they ever are.  As my camper sits now, there is likely a small amount of "residual" combined with a small amount of the "pink stuff" - when I filled the drain traps.  I agree - as long as there is room for any freezing liquid to expand, the tanks will not burst (mine never have).  I don't intentionally put pink in the tanks - just whatever happens to get in there - which is a small amount. The same could be pointed out about the water tubing. If one uses air to blow out the lines, thus emptying them, why fill them back up with the pink stuff only to flush it away in the spring? If you leave the faucets and shower open and the HW heater anode out, there is plenty of room for any residual water to expand and not burst the PEX tubing due to the pressure buildup.  I have spoken with folks who use only the compressed air/draining approach.  As far as I can tell, it is an acceptable method, as long as one is very thorough in evacuating the water from the pipes.  Those who do so also remove the traps from the drains and empty that water - also stuffing a rag (or something) in the pipe to prevent foul odors from entering the cabin. Maybe I miss something, but we seem to spend hours (and dollars) winterizing and de-winterizing, when perhaps it isn't necessary. Walt

I don't know about "hours" but it does cost $6 or so for the anti freeze.

I drain the holding tanks leaving the last campground of the season, use the pump to empty the last of the water from the fresh water tank, and then use the air blow method when we get home.

I pour a little pink stuff in the drains, and since it is so easy, pump it through all the lines with the pump. I HAVE seen shattered lines and a water heater, and really don't want to mess with that again. It literally takes 5 minutes, and I fear no 5 degree days or nights. Our camping buddies discovered they missed their outside shower last year.. $40+ to fix it, and that was just parts. I can pump the red juice a lot of years for that..

YMMV.

My dad lives in the California central valley.. in 35 years, he has never winterized. He just puts a little electric heater in the RV.

Running a little ceramic heater is fine, but down here in the south we tend to lose power if we have a snowstorm.  A few hours without power could make the temp in the pod drop pretty fast.

Originally posted by Footslogger03 Just another thought    ...if you keep a small heater inside the camper those lines and tanks won't get nearly as cold (or frozen) as they otherwise might. The Pod is our second camper and in addition to emptying the tanks and blowing out the lines we run a small ceramic heater on the low setting. The temp inside the camper rarely go below 45 degrees or so. MJ

I would submit, in the original vein of the OP's question, money was involved.. that running a small heater in Wyoming all winter will cost more than the gallon and a half of anti freeze I used this year..

But, and we don't get near as cold here.. we will leave a small heater out there all winter also. Just in case. and yes, I am one of those guys who has backups for my backups...