Newbie towing question

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I tow my 2018 179 that has a dry weight around 3000 lbs and so I figure it is around 3500 lbs loaded with my 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 liter turbo limited rated at 3500 lbs towing and it tows it like a charm and I live the mountainous Pacific NW and have put 10,000 miles of towing on it! I think the reason why it tows it so well is that the Sport has the same transmission cooler and suspension as the larger 3 row Santa Fe with a 3.3L V6 rated for 5000 lbs towing and the turbo has about the same horsepower and even better torque characteristics. It does cut the MPG on the highway in half towing a trailer, but that is pretty normal for combo like this, and it is about 24/27 MPG without the trailer and 12/13 MPG with it. On a big rig with lots of overhead the mileage is already low so it has less impact on the MPG.
Problem is 3500 lbs towing is conservative for this vehicle for the reasons I explained and that might not be the case for others, so I agree with the other posters that it would be better to have a vehicle rated closer to 5000 lbs to have some headroom.
The one thing that is critical is having a weight distribution hitch as it made a huge difference in the making the vehicle level and improving the stability of towing. 

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mhfnet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Oct 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Topic: Newbie towing question Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 8:52am
	I tow my 2018 179 that has a dry weight around 3000 lbs and so I figure it is around 3500 lbs loaded with my 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 liter turbo limited rated at 3500 lbs towing and it tows it like a charm and I live the mountainous Pacific NW and have put 10,000 miles of towing on it! I think the reason why it tows it so well is that the Sport has the same transmission cooler and suspension as the larger 3 row Santa Fe with a 3.3L V6 rated for 5000 lbs towing and the turbo has about the same horsepower and even better torque characteristics. It does cut the MPG on the highway in half towing a trailer, but that is pretty normal for combo like this, and it is about 24/27 MPG without the trailer and 12/13 MPG with it. On a big rig with lots of overhead the mileage is already low so it has less impact on the MPG. Problem is 3500 lbs towing is conservative for this vehicle for the reasons I explained and that might not be the case for others, so I agree with the other posters that it would be better to have a vehicle rated closer to 5000 lbs to have some headroom. The one thing that is critical is having a weight distribution hitch as it made a huge difference in the making the vehicle level and improving the stability of towing.

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 9:16am
	mhfet, if you are towing a 3500 lb trailer with a 3500 lb tow rated vehicle you are almost certainly over your max combined gross vehicle weight rating (MCGVWR). That is because the tow rating is done with an empty tow vehicle except for the driver. In reality you have people and stuff in the TV when you go on a trip. Its not a horsepower issue its a weight and control issue. There is a reason that Hyundai rates your vehicle at 3500 lbs and the larger one at 5000, with the same drivetrain. The heavier, longer SUV can better handle the trailer and tongue weight. Toyota does the same thing with the Rav4 vs. the Highlander. Please do yourself a favor and check the MCGVWR on your driver's door sticker. Then load up everything and everybody (fuel, water, etc) as you normally would for a trip and take your rig through a public scale and weigh it. If you are overweight reduce the weight. Whether you feel like it is towing fine or not, if you had an accident you could be found negligent. Also, get your actual tongue weight under full load conditions, you will likely be surprised how high that is. My 179 tongue weight is right at 500 lbs fully loaded. Your vehicle is probably limited to 350 lbs. A wdh doesn't allow you to increase that. What your fuel economy is with the tow vehicle alone is pretty much irrelevant because the trailer air drag dominates the hp requirement when towing. Everyone gets roughly the same fuel economy towing the same trailer under the same speed and terrain conditions.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

mhfnet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Oct 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 12:08pm
	offgrid, You did not seem to read or understand the important points of my post. One is that a weight distribution hitch is necessary (probably on any trailer that is more than 50% of the vehicle tow rating and/or sags the rear end more than 1.5") and second I have NO problems with power or control towing a fully loaded 179 with the vehicle. I also used a very good towing calculation spreadsheet (see link) before I even bought the 179, which allowed me to included all the vehicle ratings and accounted for all the gear, water, propane, etc and it did not exceed the towing limit, albeit without much margin. I also talked to the Hyundai dealer and he said there tow ratings are conservative and can easily handle right up to the towing capacity. Also Santa Fe and Santa Fe Sport same vehicle except the Santa Fe is extended 10" to add the 3rd row and different engine option. I think the difference between a RAV4 and Highlander is a lot more and are really completely different designs. Like I said, I AGREE if you don't do your homework it would be better if the vehicle was rated more like 5000 lbs towing to tow a 3000 lb trailer, but I did and the results showed that my Hyundai SUV is an awesome vehicle to tow the 179. Towing calculator: http://www.keepyourdaydream.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GVWR-and-Payload-Calc.xlsx

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 12:48pm
	I believe that I fully understood your post. I agree that a wdh improves handling, and I said as much. It is not necessary in the sense that it does not allow any increase in load capacities. You can tow the same trailer and cargo with it and without it, but it will tow much better with it especially if you have a lighter TV. And power is fine, pretty much all tow vehicles today would have been considered to have excess power 20-30 years ago. Where we disagree I think is to extend an individual positive experience towing to an assumption that that makes it safe in general. Any such experience is by definition anecdotal, and therefore not statistically significant. I can just as easily argue that you simply have yet to experience a set of conditions that stressed your rig to the point that has resulted in loss of control. Either of us would need a much larger sample size to prove our points. I can't open that Excel file on this particular device but my experience is that if you have not actually weighed your rig them you don't really know what you have. I for example was never able to account for several hundred pounds that were there when I took my rig through the scales. If your actual tongue, trailer, and combined vehicle weights are less than your TV's specs then you will be compliant with the regs and the rest is up to your personal comfort level. This online calculator provides a very nice visual result including the effect of tension adjustment of the wdh. It relies on actual weights, rig physical dimensions, and the various specs for your trailer and tow vehicle. https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

mhfnet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Oct 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 1:17pm
	I have already put the setup through just about everything except a tornado, lol! It's been on a 3000 mile trip from Seattle to the Grand Canyon and back in snow, mountains, deserts, and high side winds, all on the same trip! I also use it a lot in the Pacific NW going on steep, rough forest service roads (I do a lot of off-road dry camping) with no control issues. Again I agree this is not the norm but like I said this vehicle is rated very conservatively. I think it is partially because Hyundai wants to sell the Santa Fe as better for towing bigger loads because it is bigger (really only difference is that it is 10" longer) but in all reality both the Santa Fe and Santa Fe Sport should be rated similarly at 5000 lbs of towing. So again I would recommend the original poster buy a vehicle that is "rated" at a minimum 5000 lbs to tow a RPod to be safe.

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 4:22pm
	As I said, "If your actual tongue, trailer, and combined vehicle weights are less than your TV's specs then you will be compliant with the regs and the rest is up to your personal comfort level." That applies to everyone towing. So, if you've done that and are comfortable, more power to you. For myself, I want a significant safety margin in the form or reserve capacity. There are others on this forum that want more reserve and wouldn't tow a 179 with a Highlander like I do. But if you have a tow vehicle that you are operating close to its limits and you haven't actually weighed your fully loaded rig then you don't really know whether you are within limits or not. It's a very easy thing to run through a public scale and know for sure, many times you can do that at your local waste transfer station for free.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

mhfnet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Oct 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 8:59am
	offgrid, I agree weighing the vehicle would be good to know but I consider my estimates based on the individual weights and ratings of everything to be very good. When it comes down to it you have to trust the manufacturers ratings they provide to be accurate and hopefully conservative. Maybe it's more of a testament to the quality of Hyundai vehicles, and I think Toyota belongs in that same category, as this is my second Hyundai SUV and they have been great! In my case the experience I have had with this combo has been very positive and it's backed up by the calculations and real world testing and you can't get any better than that!

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 12:09pm
	I have no reason to question Hyundai's ratings but I am highly suspicious of anything stated by FR. As I said, I could not recreate the actual weight or tongue weight of my trailer from the empty weights stated in the rPod literature or from the numbers on the trailer sticker. That is why I recommending to everyone to get an actual weight. Its easy and removes any doubt. As for real world testing, as I said, if you're good with your personal experience, that's fine with me. But please don't take it personally that I am not at all convinced by 10,000 miles of data. I have explained why. The fatal accident rate in the US is about 1 per 100 million miles, so to have a statistically significant sample takes on the order of thousands of vehicle-years. Barring that, I am going to go with the conservative approach and stay well below the manufacturer's limitations.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold