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Have You Done Any Mods?

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Poll Question: Have you done any mods to your R-Pod?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
683 [81.41%]
10 [1.19%]
134 [15.97%]
10 [1.19%]
2 [0.24%]
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gpokluda View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gpokluda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Have You Done Any Mods?
    Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:39pm
@LA, no argument with your points which is why, as I stated earlier, I will be staying with ST tires on our new trailer. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation today. You both have a great evening. If we are to ever meet, the first round is on me.
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:28pm
Marv, if you go with the tire manufacturer's recommendation, you'll be in a strong position.  On the other hand, thinking as a devious defense lawyer, if you run LT tires on a trailer and end up in a lawsuit because of a tire issue, you can be sure the trailer manufacturer will claim that the LT tires they mounted on the trailer were fine and that it was all your fault.  Sadly, in the legal business, the blame game runs wild and everyone get dirt thrown on them. 

I'd be delighted to cross paths for a visit.  We left the far west smoke for the green east coast, but my heart is still in the forests of the west.  By an odd set of circumstances that I won't go into here, I was born in Seattle but went south to CA at a very young age.
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
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Marvin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Marvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:10pm
Thanks Fred for that information.  Sounds like the bottom legal line is... go with the MFG's recommendations.  That way I only have to worry about what I do on my own.

Again... Many thanks for your input... hope I never run into you (sorry I could resist, pun intended). Thumbs Up In realty I hope we do get to meet up sometime out there.   You ever get to the NW look us up we know all the great places (that goes for everyone here)?  We will just be doing local outings now.Smile
Marv

2019 RP178 Highly Modified
2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 5:49pm
If you use load range D ST tires the max pressure is 65 lbs.  If you use higher load range, there is no requirement that you max out on the pressure as long as you have enough air in the tire to have the tread pressing evenly on the pavement and the side walls adequately supported.  

Marv' it's not an issue of being "legal" or "illegal," but rather an issue of making your self legally liable if something goes wrong.  You can put any tire on a trailer that you like, but if you have an accident, someone like me -- before I retired -- would end up defending you at the request of your insurance company for negligence and the company would probably pay a lot of money in your behalf, only to squeeze it out of you later as your loss history would be a lot worse.  If it was incredibly gross negligence, then there could be liability for criminal negligence but you'd need a different kind of lawyer than the tort defense practice I had.

gpokluda, there are all kinds of engineers just like there are all kinds of other professionals.  I wouldn't have my gastroenterologist do a heart valve replacement on me and have high expectations of a successful surgery. ... and I probably wouldn't like the approach to my heart s/he might attempt.  I used to defend tire companies and worked with some very capable engineers whose specialty involved tire design.  Those are the kind of engineers I'm talking about.  A software engineer or electronic engineer may not really fit the bill.  I doubt any real tire engineer would recommend using LT or P tires on a trailer carrying the weight of the typical travel trailer, even the light weight ones.

As for dealers and travel trailer companies putting on LT tires for show, the'll need a pretty good lawyer to wiggle out of the law suit when the tire engineer says the tire makes the trailer defective and the rules of product liability are applied.  If one sells a defective product and someone gets hurt, there is strict liability.  The difficulty for the plaintiff's attorney is proving the defect, as opposed to driving 90 with a trailer on a bumpy road, was the cause of the crash.  If I were a corporate lawyer for FR or another trailer company, which thankfully I'm not, I'd caution against putting LT tires on trailers.  If they want the gnarly look, get some of the Westlakes I linked to above, and charge $500 more for the trailer.

Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 5:49pm
If you use load range D ST tires the max pressure is 65 lbs.  If you use higher load range, there is no requirement that you max out on the pressure as long as you have enough air in the tire to have the tread pressing evenly on the pavement and the side walls adequately supported.  

Marv' it's not an issue of being "legal" or "illegal," but rather an issue of making your self legally liable if something goes wrong.  You can put any tire on a trailer that you like, but if you have an accident, someone like me -- before I retired -- would end up defending you at the request of your insurance company for negligence and the company would probably pay a lot of money in your behalf, only to squeeze it out of you later as your loss history would be a lot worse.  If it was incredibly gross negligence, then there could be liability for criminal negligence but you'd need a different kind of lawyer than the kind of practice I had.

gpokluda, there are all kinds of engineers just like there are all kinds of other professionals.  I wouldn't have my gastroenterologist do a heart valve replacement on me and have high expectations of a successful surgery. ... and I probably wouldn't like the approach to my heart s/he might attempt.  I used to defend tire companies and worked with some very capable engineers whose specialty involved tire design.  Those are the kind of engineers I'm talking about.  A software engineer or electronic engineer may not really fit the bill.  I doubt any real tire engineer would recommend using LT or P tires on a trailer carrying the weight of the typical travel trailer, even the light weight ones.

As for dealers and travel trailer companies putting on LT tires for show, the'll need a pretty good lawyer to wiggle out of the law suit when the tire engineer says the tire makes the trailer defective and the rules of product liability are applied.  If one sells a defective product and someone gets hurt, there is strict liability.  The difficulty for the plaintiff's attorney is proving the defect, as opposed to driving 90 with a trailer on a bumpy road, was the cause of the crash.  If I were a corporate lawyer for FR or another trailer company, which thankfully I'm not, I'd caution against putting LT tires on trailers.  If they want the gnarly look, get some of the Westlakes I linked to above, and charge $500 more for the trailer.

And
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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Marvin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Marvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 4:36pm
So let me see if i get this straight... your an engineer and your telling me this.  Ok.. I bit.

Thanks for the information.  65 it is.
Marv

2019 RP178 Highly Modified
2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger
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Linda&Gino View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Linda&Gino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 4:12pm
@Marv, Forest River recommended 65psi in the LT tires. They strongly discouraged 80psi because the wheels on the Rpod are not rated at that pressure. Furthermore, when we had the tires installed at one of the tire shops that serviced RV dealers, they would not install an 80psi tire valve for the same reason. The standard tire valve found on most passenger cars, pickups and travel trailer is rated at 65psi max. 

@LA, ask an engineer anything and you will usually get a lot of explanation but nothing definitive. I know because I work with engineers everyday and I, myself, am a recovering engineer. LOL FWIW, I don't think any of us plan to travel in bad weather, but sometimes it happens. 
gpokluda
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Marvin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Marvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 3:33pm
Hi Lost again... Humm... Love that name but I never get lost because I'm always exploring... or so I tell People. :-) 

I found out that its not illegal for a dealer to put any tire he wants on a trailer even if its not recomended.  I think in my case they put it on to make the used 178 trailer more attractive.
Marv

2019 RP178 Highly Modified
2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger
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Marvin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Marvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 3:21pm
Gpokluda, Great post.  So true... the ST's are very hard to find in stock.

Here is something I find very interesting... maybe you can explain it.
After I got the LT's I was very nervous about the 80PSI in them because we had previously hit a lot of road construction and then there were the concrete slab interstates. The LT's with 45lbs (Dealer recomended) that trailer bounced on every one of the slab cracks and I had to do about 10mph or less under the speed limit.   Once I got the ST's with 80PSI the bouncing stopped and I easily did the legal speed no problem.  Mater of fact... I had to use the cruse because the ride was so good I would get carried away with a heavy foot.  Maybe the LT's off road were a stiffer tire I don't know, but changing to the ST's was well worth it to us, and may have saved our life in a close call.    
Marv

2019 RP178 Highly Modified
2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 3:11pm
It would not be surprising to learn that travel trailer dealers and manufacturers decisions regarding the use of the LT off road tires are being made by marketing people who are trying to create an impression on the part of their customers that the trailers can go anywhere because of the gnarly tires.  On the other hand, if you were to contact tire engineers at tire manufacturing companies you'd probably find out that they would not recommend P or LT tires, no matter what the tread design, because of the less stiff side walls as compared to the ST [Special Trailer] tires.  

If you really feel the need for and/or will be driving in snowy conditions with your trailer, there are ST tires available with snow tread.  eTrailer has some, but they're pretty pricey, [https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Tires-and-Wheels/Westlake/WST34FR.html]. For most of us, we don't do much snow camping and in the off chance one must occasionally travel in snowy conditions requiring the extra traction, chains may be an easier and less costly alternative.  Also keep in mind that some states require trailer tires to be chained up when there are chain controls in effect for other vehicles, even for 4x4's with snow tires.  Best to check the rules where you anticipate snow driving before leaving.  For example, https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/documents/chainrequire-a11y.pd.  Personally, if I had to confront driving in the snow with treacherous conditions or chain controls in effect, unless I was trying to run from the sheriff, I'd just wait until the weather improved and/ or the chain controls were taken down.  
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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