Have You Done Any Mods?

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If you use load range D ST tires the max pressure is 65 lbs.  If you use higher load range, there is no requirement that you max out on the pressure as long as you have enough air in the tire to have the tread pressing evenly on the pavement and the side walls adequately supported.  
Marv' it's not an issue of being "legal" or "illegal," but rather an issue of making your self legally liable if something goes wrong.  You can put any tire on a trailer that you like, but if you have an accident, someone like me -- before I retired -- would end up defending you at the request of your insurance company for negligence and the company would probably pay a lot of money in your behalf, only to squeeze it out of you later as your loss history would be a lot worse.  If it was incredibly gross negligence, then there could be liability for criminal negligence but you'd need a different kind of lawyer than the tort defense practice I had.

gpokluda, there are all kinds of engineers just like there are all kinds of other professionals.  I wouldn't have my gastroenterologist do a heart valve replacement on me and have high expectations of a successful surgery. ... and I probably wouldn't like the approach to my heart s/he might attempt.  I used to defend tire companies and worked with some very capable engineers whose specialty involved tire design.  Those are the kind of engineers I'm talking about.  A software engineer or electronic engineer may not really fit the bill.  I doubt any real tire engineer would recommend using LT or P tires on a trailer carrying the weight of the typical travel trailer, even the light weight ones.

As for dealers and travel trailer companies putting on LT tires for show, the'll need a pretty good lawyer to wiggle out of the law suit when the tire engineer says the tire makes the trailer defective and the rules of product liability are applied.  If one sells a defective product and someone gets hurt, there is strict liability.  The difficulty for the plaintiff's attorney is proving the defect, as opposed to driving 90 with a trailer on a bumpy road, was the cause of the crash.  If I were a corporate lawyer for FR or another trailer company, which thankfully I'm not, I'd caution against putting LT tires on trailers.  If they want the gnarly look, get some of the Westlakes I linked to above, and charge $500 more for the trailer.

Poll Question: Have you done any mods to your R-Pod?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Yes	683	[81.41%]
No	10	[1.19%]
I will be	134	[15.97%]
Factory is good for me!	10	[1.19%]
What's an R-Pod? :-)	2	[0.24%]
You can not vote in this poll

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lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostagain Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Have You Done Any Mods? Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 5:49pm
	If you use load range D ST tires the max pressure is 65 lbs. If you use higher load range, there is no requirement that you max out on the pressure as long as you have enough air in the tire to have the tread pressing evenly on the pavement and the side walls adequately supported. Marv' it's not an issue of being "legal" or "illegal," but rather an issue of making your self legally liable if something goes wrong. You can put any tire on a trailer that you like, but if you have an accident, someone like me -- before I retired -- would end up defending you at the request of your insurance company for negligence and the company would probably pay a lot of money in your behalf, only to squeeze it out of you later as your loss history would be a lot worse. If it was incredibly gross negligence, then there could be liability for criminal negligence but you'd need a different kind of lawyer than the tort defense practice I had. gpokluda, there are all kinds of engineers just like there are all kinds of other professionals. I wouldn't have my gastroenterologist do a heart valve replacement on me and have high expectations of a successful surgery. ... and I probably wouldn't like the approach to my heart s/he might attempt. I used to defend tire companies and worked with some very capable engineers whose specialty involved tire design. Those are the kind of engineers I'm talking about. A software engineer or electronic engineer may not really fit the bill. I doubt any real tire engineer would recommend using LT or P tires on a trailer carrying the weight of the typical travel trailer, even the light weight ones. As for dealers and travel trailer companies putting on LT tires for show, the'll need a pretty good lawyer to wiggle out of the law suit when the tire engineer says the tire makes the trailer defective and the rules of product liability are applied. If one sells a defective product and someone gets hurt, there is strict liability. The difficulty for the plaintiff's attorney is proving the defect, as opposed to driving 90 with a trailer on a bumpy road, was the cause of the crash. If I were a corporate lawyer for FR or another trailer company, which thankfully I'm not, I'd caution against putting LT tires on trailers. If they want the gnarly look, get some of the Westlakes I linked to above, and charge $500 more for the trailer.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

Marvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 Jan 2023 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote Marvin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:10pm
	Thanks Fred for that information. Sounds like the bottom legal line is... go with the MFG's recommendations. That way I only have to worry about what I do on my own. Again... Many thanks for your input... hope I never run into you (sorry I could resist, pun intended). In realty I hope we do get to meet up sometime out there. You ever get to the NW look us up we know all the great places (that goes for everyone here)? We will just be doing local outings now.
	Marv 2019 RP178 Highly Modified 2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostagain Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:28pm
	Marv, if you go with the tire manufacturer's recommendation, you'll be in a strong position. On the other hand, thinking as a devious defense lawyer, if you run LT tires on a trailer and end up in a lawsuit because of a tire issue, you can be sure the trailer manufacturer will claim that the LT tires they mounted on the trailer were fine and that it was all your fault. Sadly, in the legal business, the blame game runs wild and everyone get dirt thrown on them. I'd be delighted to cross paths for a visit. We left the far west smoke for the green east coast, but my heart is still in the forests of the west. By an odd set of circumstances that I won't go into here, I was born in Seattle but went south to CA at a very young age.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

gpokluda Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Location: NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 275	Post Options Post Reply Quote gpokluda Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 6:39pm
	@LA, no argument with your points which is why, as I stated earlier, I will be staying with ST tires on our new trailer. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation today. You both have a great evening. If we are to ever meet, the first round is on me.
	Gpokluda 2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023) 2022 Escape 5.0TA 2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB Triumph T120

Marvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 Jan 2023 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote Marvin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:00pm
	Your on.
	Marv 2019 RP178 Highly Modified 2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger

Marvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 Jan 2023 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote Marvin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:10pm
	Yes to all that and I'll add... the best attorney that presents their case. I'm always reminded of the justice stature with the blindfold. Lovely country where you are at. BTW... I use to be a photographer for Insurance claims, and law enforcement at one time early in my life.
	Marv 2019 RP178 Highly Modified 2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:25am
	I don't think there is any legal restriction on the use of LT tires on a travel trailer. I couldnt find anything like that in a quick Internet search. If someone has found such a restriction please share it. Barring that, I think you can use LT tires on a TT if they are properly inflated, meet the load rating on your trailer sticker, and are mounted on wheels that also are properly rated. I'm sure many tens if not hundreds of thousands of LT tires are in trailer use, including ones put there by the OEMs. The reverse isnt true, ST tires are limited to trailer use only so you shouldnt mount those on your pickup truck. I agree with the other posts though that question why you would want to use LTs on a trailer, other than cuz they look cool. Due to more aggressive tread patterns (for drive wheel traction) and lower sidewall stiffness (for passenger comfort) the LTs will also have higher rolling resistance. STs don't need and aren't designed with either of these things in mind. They are designed to carry load while using as little fuel as possible. That's what you need on a travel trailer. I guess maybe if you really felt you needed better braking action for your trailer in snow or mud maybe you might opt for LTs on a TT, but good luck to you if you are counting on your trailer brakes and tires to keep you from sliding down that mountain....
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostagain Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:27am
	The issue of legality is threefold: Civil law, administrative law and criminal law. If some state has a law that has criminal sanctions for using non-ST tires, then it would be illegal in the criminal sense. I doubt there are many or any states with such a law. With administrative law legality, there may be rules from state or federal agencies that regulate what kind of parts or tires one can use in a given situation. Varying from those rules imposes a form of an administrative law sanction, such as a fine. For example, using parts on an aircraft that are not approved by the FAA for airworthiness, can result in a violation of some air worthiness directive or other rule and the shop and aircraft owner can be civilly sanctioned. OG can share much about this since he has an airplane. When people tell you that it's not legal to use x tire or to do y concerning mounting, they are probably referring to civil law consequences. No tire shop owner wants to unnecessarily expose him/herself to civil liability. People may tell you that it is "not legal" to repair a tire because of the nature of the damage or mount a given tire on a vehicle for a particular use. What they are really saying is they don't want to be found liable in civil court or violating the standard of due care for a shop operator. What is legal or illegal in that context is what the jury or court decides is negligent conduct. Similar concepts of "legality" can also come up in product liability cases, but it's a bit more complicated. The basic rule is if a seller [other than a casual, one time, seller] sells a defective product, such as having tires that are not appropriate for the foreseeable use, or misuse, s/he can be held strictly liable if the defect cause an injury. One could argue that putting LT tires on a trailer renders it "defective" for it's intended use, but the reality is there would be a war of expert witnesses in a trial and the one that who is able to convince the jury that his/her opinion is more valid will probably win. Presumably, a tire engineer who works with tire design for a living would be more credible, but juries don't always choose to believe the most knowledgeable "expert." Much of it has to do with showmanship and being more convincing with an explanation that lay people can understand and relate to.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

Marvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 Jan 2023 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote Marvin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:42am
	[ Much of it has to do with showmanship and being more convincing with an explanation that lay people can understand and relate to. [/QUOTE] Fred... your last sentance. is very well put... I totally agree. Thank you everyone for jumping in... its been a great discussion.
	Marv 2019 RP178 Highly Modified 2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness Turbo Charger

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 2:14pm
	Great post LA. I think the difference between what's legal from a criminal or administrative perspective for non commercial road vehicles vs aircraft is that the states are responsible for regulating the highways but the feds own all the airspace. So as soon as you leave the groud your butt belongs to the FAA. The DOT does regulate interstate commerce so commercial vehicles engaged in those activities do fall under it's jurisdiction. Getting away from the FAAs regulatory authority over certified aircraft was one of the reasons I own an experimental aircraft this time around. I can use any part I want as long as I'm convinced and ready to be responsible for my planes airworthiness. In practice that means I actually have better equipment than most of my friends who own certified planes do. that's because the a stage age of the general aviation fleet is well over 30 years and few parts suppliers are willing to invest in the process needed to certify modern replacment equipment for those old birds.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold