R-pod Owners Forum Homepage

This site is free to use.
Donations benefit a non-profit Girls Softball organization

Forum Home Forum Home > R-pod Discussion Forums > Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Trailer Brake Controller Issue
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedTrailer Brake Controller Issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Message
GlueGuy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 2017
Location: N. California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2628
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trailer Brake Controller Issue
    Posted: 03 May 2018 at 3:31pm
The newer F-150s may have another wrinkle. Was just talking to someone with another fairly new F-150. He has a utility trailer without brakes. It not only could tell a trailer was connected, but it also knew it had a bad tail light AND which one. So even though a light was burned out, AND there was not trailer brakes, it still knew there was a trailer there.

Maybe the Ram is just simpler?
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
Back to Top
Leo B View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2012
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4508
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 3:38pm
My F-150 is like that, I also have a utility trailer that has no brakes and a 4 pin plug. Last time I plugged it in to use it, it told me I had a tail light out, checked and it was right. Changed the bulb and all was set. The Ford mechanic was talking about the wire being broke and the truck realizing when I applied the breaks that it was saying it was disconnected because of the break in the pods break wire breaking some circuit. But when he fixed the wire it worked perfect.
When we got the truck, we did have to go through a couple of thing where we programed in and named each trailer. When we plug in the trailer the truck know which one it is. 
Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150
2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk
Previously owned
2015 Rpod 179
2010 Rpod 171
Back to Top
Leo B View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2012
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4508
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 3:39pm
Then it automatically applies the setting for that particular trailer.  
Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150
2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk
Previously owned
2015 Rpod 179
2010 Rpod 171
Back to Top
mcarter View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 3:47pm
That's good my friend but has nothing to do with the TBC. The TBC has one wire control. My Chevy will not tell me when a 4 pole trailer is connected but will show in the turn signals if a trailer tail light is not functioning. Sure new trucks have better light technology, granted. The TBC looks for a load on the one wire associated with brakes and uses that load sense to determine a trailer connection - ONLY FOR THE TBC. It is designed to NOT be associated with lights and is a safety factor. I can send you pics of how your Pod is wired and connected or you can do it yourself, just find a 7 pin flat standard RV connection diagram, you will see one wire is used from the TBC to the wheel backing plate. It doesn't matter about light technology the vehicle system has to work with the existing RV technology, end of the day the RV brakes have nothing to do with lights and the RV lights have nothing to do with brakes. I can have a disconnected TT plug and energize the brakes with a jumper and not have a single lit light.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
Back to Top
mcarter View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 3:54pm
LEO,

You are spot on, your truck has a light circuit that assists with light issues. Has nothing to do with your TBC and your brake problem, two different issues. The TBC operates independently from lights, has to. Each TBC is set up by vehicle, same with aftermarket TBCs not embedded like yours. The OP of this message has a TBC issue and the most likely culprit is wiring in or around one or both TT hubs.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
Back to Top
Leo B View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2012
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4508
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:02pm
I think we are saying the same thing. I agree that lights have nothing to do with the brakes. Whatever wire that was busted didn't effect the lights. But when we applied the brake or used the TBC it would tell us the trailer was disconnected and the trailer brake wouldn't engage.
All the trailer lights worked perfectly the whole time. Our issue was the truck not recognizing the pods brakes. 
Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150
2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk
Previously owned
2015 Rpod 179
2010 Rpod 171
Back to Top
mcarter View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:08pm
Thanks LEO - the lights have zilch to do with brakes. The OP said he has a TBC issue - his lights work fine. The dealer said his truck is good. Easy to check, brake controller voltage on one wire. He has an intermittent trailer problem. Doesn't matter what year truck or make - brake control circuits are standard. Have to be.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
Back to Top
GlueGuy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 2017
Location: N. California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2628
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:43pm
Maybe 'm not being clear. The truck is saying "Trailer not Connected" (that may be paraphrasing). That is one issue. It's separate from the trailer brakes not working.

HOWEVER. If the truck thinks that there is no trailer connected, it may be that it has decided that there is nothing there, so has not enabled the trailer brake.

What I am trying to say, and seem to be failing miserably at, is that it may be just that the truck is not sensing the trailer (as in through the lights), and therefore it is not turning on the power to the brakes.

You guys may be right that the Ram senses the trailer via the TBC circuit (I know that our Ford does not do it this way).

So what I'm trying to suggest is that the sensing of the trailer and the operation (or not) of the trailer brakes are potentially two different issues.
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
Back to Top
mcarter View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:58pm
No - Glueguy, one last time - lights and brakes have nothing to do with each other the TBC senses the trailer thru the TBC control signal and works independently from the lights. Either or both can detect a trailer, only one effects what the OP describes and adding lights just confused the issue. The OP has a brake issue and trailer not connected, which is part of the TBC circuitry. The TBC circuit in your Ford does it too, just like LEOs did.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
Back to Top
mcarter View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3419
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2018 at 5:32pm
BTW - here how tow command works on a Ford: The optional factory in-dash installed Ford Motor Company "TowCommand" integrated TBC (Trailer Brake Controller) system available and compatible on the heavy duty commercial Ford Super Duty line of trucks starting with the 2005 models. TowCommand has since been added to the full-size Ford F-150 pickup and the full-size Ford Expedition SUV. It is built and engineered jointly with Tekonsha who are known for their Prodigy TBC.

With adjustable +/- trailer braking gain in a digital readout from 0.0 (no trailer brakes) to 10.0 (full trailer braking) in 0.5 increments and a manual override lever (to test trailer braking action), the Ford 'built into the dash' TBC provides smooth braking even when pulling up to a 15,000 lb 4-axle conventional (receiver mounted) or 26,000 lb 4-axle 5th Wheel (bed/frame mounted) trailer. TowCommand being different from most aftermarket TBCs, ties into the trucks' computer and hydraulics, so it senses truck brake pressure and can apply trailer brakes as fast as the truck's brakes. Master Brake Systems 'BrakeSmart' TBC is the only other TBC that taps into the trucks hydraulic lines in modern trucks.

The TowCommand TBC is made of three major components; the in-dash TBC module, a TowCommand master cylinder with a brake pressure transducer, and an activated PCM (Powertrain Control Module) parameter by a Ford dealer's NGS or WDS programming method. All 2005 and newer Ford Super Duty trucks are pre-wired for the TBC from the factory, no matter if the TBC option was ordered and installed at the time of the trucks assembly or not.

Before ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) came to trucks in the 1980s, most TBCs were activated by the trucks' brake hydraulic action. In an emergency situation with the trucks ABS activated, Ford's TowCommand can automatically reduce the trailer brake pressure (gain) as it communicates with the truck's computer for faster reaction time with proportional trailer brake control, to prevent the trailer brakes from locking up even though trailers do not have ABS sensors. TowCommand will also inform the driver with an audible alarm and in the digital readout if the trailer wires and/or trailer disconnects from the truck. Next to the TowCommand is an empty storage tray or the $85 optional 4 AUX (auxiliary) toggle switches for winches, snow plow, off-road lights, etc.

The only disadvantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, is that it cannot be transferred from one truck to another. Another advantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, any Ford service center can have it serviced. The TowCommand is covered by the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty as long as it is not discovered to be an actual trailer problem. The TowCommand has only been verified to be compatible with trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles) and not hydraulic surge or electric-

From what I can ascertain - major complaint is the Towing App- and visible readout on dash doesn't show a brake failure versus a light failure. The APP provides basic connection info. From above it expalains that alrm sounds if a connection fail happens, but doesn't relate to brake failure. The TBC knows the system has issues but the app relays only electrical info.

Interesting etrailer.com has article about Ford owners adding after market TBC because they want a trailer brake monitoring system, not an electrical system monitor.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.64
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz