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Topic ClosedCosts of Alternatives for Running Fridge

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Costs of Alternatives for Running Fridge
    Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 7:27pm
Lostagain, i just looked up one on ebay, 130$, 400 Watts at 30 mph, startup at 4 mph, supposed to survive 110 mph. That is almost enough to survive the hurricanes out here on the OBX. Ask me if I believe it. I’ve been here in 115 mph winds. Not fun.

But at that price why worry about it? Hmmmm. But DW would reject the idea bc she wouldnt want me to be killing any birds.

One thing I can say about wind though is that it’s highly variable, energy generation goes with the cube of the windspeed. And its much more site specific than solar.

But if you know u have good wind access where you camp, go for it. I don't think the overturning moment from that size turbine would be that bad. With a very quick calc I came up with about 600 ft lbs at the roof of the rpod. Wouldn’t come anywhere near overturning your trailer. But I didn’t spend enough time on it to be confident. You could always stow it in high winds, you’ll need to do that to tow anyway.

Share some pics when u get it set up...




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 7:43pm
I'm far, far to lazy to go to all the trouble to take the concept to fruition.  I'd rather go camping with my simple and easy to use flexible 100W solar panel.  As we try to keep things to a minimalist's level, we've no need for such a Rube Goldberg contraption.  [I still think it'd look really cool.]

As for cubes of wind speed, the only cubes we should really be thinking about are the number of ice cubes needed for a good margarita.  But, as I previously observed, I would never waste good Herradura Reposado by putting it into margarita mix.

Finally, as for birds, it's a question of teaching them to get the heck out of the way when they see the Pod coming.  Those that learn the lesson will also know to avoid all those propellers in the wind farms and those that don't, well, hopefully they're game birds that will go well with a nice sherry sauce.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 7:59pm
I have several neighbors who have attempted to use wind power. It is often the least expensive way to generate energy, but also the least reliable. Every single one of them has abandoned their wind power projects in favor of solar. Solar is hard to beat, no moving parts (other than electrons/holes), and a 20-30 year life span.

Wind power can work, but it needs to be up-scaled quite a lot. We're talking about wind turbines with 100' blades. Get that to work on your R-pod.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 4:30am
In addition to the bird problem you've got the noise. Someone in the campground is gonna complain that those 100 meter rpod mounted turbine blades violate quiet hours rules. 

The solar vs. wind debate has been going on for nearly 40 years now. I keep thinking my side has won but there's still a bit more installed wind than solar capacity

Wind & Solar (worldwide)Wind Total CapacityWind New InstallationsSolar Total CapacitySolar New Installations
2018 Forecast:600.5 GW60.9 GW518.3 GW113.0 GW
2017 Preliminary:539.6 GW52.6 GW405.3 GW98.9 GW
2017-2018 Change+11.3%+15.8%+27.9%+14.3%


Anyway, its back to hurricane tracking for me. 5AM forecast just came out. Florence's track keeps shifting south. I could use some of that good tequila over here. Stocking up at the ABC store is top priority in my hurricane emergency plan for today. Relocating the pod to higher ground has to wait.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 7:44am
I've been around the little sailboat sized wind generators and I have to say, they are in a different class than the 100m blade wind turbines that you see in the wind farms of Nebraska.  They make no discernible noise at all.  If the wind is blowing what little noise they make is overcome by the noise of all the boat rigging with halyards clanging on the mast, wind whistling in the rigging, and other stuff going clunk as it bounces around in the breeze.  And I've never seen a dead  seagull in the vicinity of a wind generator with obvious impact wounds.  Not say'in it doesn't happen, just my anecdotal experience, which proves nothing.

The real problem I've found with the small boat type wind generators is that they stop generating at a max of about 40 knots or about 50 mph.  If one was to be developed to use on an RV it would need to be able to work at speeds up to 70 for the vehicle plus an allowance for headwinds.  That's an engineering issue that some fine engineer will solve if someone ever decides to build one.  And since it doesn't have to be built, necessarily, to marine grade as would one on a boat, that gives the engineer more options on materials.

Though wind generators may not be ideal for an rPod sitting still, the original suggestion was made to give it an energy source to run the fridge while moving, a condition in which there is, by definition, always wind.  And the flaw in the hypothesis is finding a device that can operate under wind conditions found while driving.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 7:52am
There would be the additional drag of such a wind generator mounted on the 'Pod while towing. That would increase fuel consumption so the wind energy would not be "free."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 9:24am
lostagain, I wasn't thinking you were planning to run this thing while towing. Confused

StephenH is 100% right. The good old second law of thermodynamics (you can't break even) would come into play and you would be way way behind trying to convert gasoline into battery charge this way. From a quick look it appears that the turbines are about 40% efficient, and the TV engine is about 20% so overall less than 10% of the chemical energy in the extra fuel burned would be transformed into electrical energy in your battery. 

Stow it flat, rig a couple linear actuators to it and wire it to your slide out switch so you can push one button and everything would deploy when you got to the campground. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 10:13am
Of course there would be additional drag.  If you read one of my earlier posts on the topic, you will note that I said there would be extra fuel consumption.  There would be additional drag from the device and supports and there would be additional drag caused by the force necessary to move the propeller blades, turn the generator, and move the electrons.  

Another element that would have to be investigated in regard to windage would be whether it would be more efficient to mount it fore or aft (like the pusher prop on some home built planes).  I wonder how it would affect the wind turbulence following the trailer that the little foil is supposed to help?  It could create a lot more drag, thus energy consumption, or it could help reduce it.  Some wind tunnel testing may be in order.

Oh, how I wish there was a perpetual motion machine to give us free unlimited energy.  But, alas, there isn't.  There is always a price to pay, it's a question of trade-offs.

And that's why we don't mount unicorns to the top of Pods either. ... even though they'd really look cool.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 11:02am
You can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game...Science sez so. 

The sun has been around about 5 billion years and will be around for another 5 billion. The earth continuously receives 174 petawatts (thats 1.74x10^17 watts) from the sun. Humans use about 18 terawatt hours (1.8x10^13 watt hours) of energy annually. So the earth gets enough solar energy to meet all of humankind's annual energy requirements in about a third of a second.  Close enough to perpetual and unlimited free energy for me! Besides, if that's ever not enough we can build a Dyson sphere to capture all the sun's energy. It would block all the starlight though which would spoil the fun sitting around the campfire at night. 

The TV antenna on my pod is kinda a unicorn these days I think, I haven't watched broadcast TV since the 80's. Gotta get that thing off there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by offgrid

The TV antenna on my pod is kinda a unicorn these days I think, I haven't watched broadcast TV since the 80's. Gotta get that thing off there.
That's how we get all of our network TV these days. There is no such thing as "cable" where we live. Actually, I am loathe to actually pay for TV, so the antenna is the best option.
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