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Topic ClosedConcept for cold weather use of rPod water systems

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Concept for cold weather use of rPod water systems
    Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 12:23pm
The heat pads use tons of electricity. You'll need hookups for that, or run a genny all night. The nice thing about the water recirculation approach is that it gets its heat from the water heater so you can use propane as the heat source for that (or electricity if you're hooked up, the water heater is dual source). And it heats all the water lines at once, you don't need to worry about missing a spot. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 1:21pm
offgrid

i think the recirculating method is the best solution, just a little above my pay grade of savvy.  i am trying to see if i think i can do it.  i get the pump and the recirculation concept, but the solenoid and relay stuff throws me for a loop.  need to do some homework.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 2:19pm
Definitely true Offgrid that they use up the power and wouldn't take long to drain the battery.  I didn't really want to test how long it would go! :-) So we just took the generator and ran it while the heating sources were on.  It worked fine that way just for a couple of days and of course if you've got a hookup would work even better.  But if I were going to be off the grid for any length of time, I'd want to do the re-circulation option.  Certainly much quieter than running the genny all night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 2:29pm
offgrid and/or charlie,

a few questions on this: 
1.  this will require a tap into fresh water tank for return correct? what is the best way to do that?

2. concept question: what about the water lines at a sink for instance? no water actually circulates say the last foot unless you open the sink valves.  Does the water actually circulate enough within the line to accomplish the necessary heat distribution ?  or is this moot since these areas are in heated living areas?  for instance in Charlies schematic of the water lines, the hot and cold to the shower?

3. Is the manual valve on the solenoid pump just for pressure and flow limiting ?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 2:37pm
If you just use the solenoid and thermostat it you shouldn't need to do anything else. Add a shutoff valve so you can redirect water between the hot and cold lines at the far end of the water system from the pump.  That valve will be open in winter and closed in summer. Add a second shutoff valve between the cold line and the water pump which will be open in summer and closed in winter to make sure the pump feeds only through the hot water line in winter. The solenoid can go between the cold line and the fresh tank overflow line so it runs hot water back into the fresh water tank. Or you can run it back into the fresh tank drain, that might use less heat because you won't be trying to heat the bottom of the fresh tank from the top. 

 I used one of the little Chinese thermostats in another project to provide a precise temp control for the water heater. There is a thread on it on the forum.  It runs on 12Vdc which is available at the water heater controls and should be able to run a 12V solenoid valve just fine. The temp probe for the thermostat can go on the lowest place in the system (bottom of the fresh water tank or on the bottom of the pump feed line at the tank).  You can get 2 thermostats for $8 on Amazon and have a second one to adjust the water heater temp. 

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-One-channel/dp/B07CH7W3XP/ref=pd_sim_328_2/145-8709395-3663044?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07CH7W3XP&pd_rd_r=c892e5d4-1e83-11e9-8739-9941e184f583&pd_rd_w=85MgR&pd_rd_wg=JxkeJ&pf_rd_p=18bb0b78-4200-49b9-ac91-f141d61a1780&pf_rd_r=WXCJRBAXMZMVQD4HQMAY&psc=1&refRID=WXCJRBAXMZMVQD4HQMAY

A solenoid valve like this should work OK. You'll need some plumbing parts to connect it up. 
https://www.amazon.com/SNS-2W025-08-Electric-Solenoid-Normally/dp/B0794XJGBF/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1SJGTGMTXP1KO&keywords=12v+solenoid+valve&qid=1548188854&sprefix=12v+solen%2Cfashion%2C261&sr=8-5. 

CharlieM did this mod on another brand of trailer and has a link to it on this thread. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by offgrid

If you just use the solenoid and thermostat it you shouldn't need to do anything else. Add a shutoff valve so you can redirect water between the hot and cold lines at the far end of the water system from the pump.  This is just a connection of the hot and cold lines together with a valve to shutoff like at the water heater correct? probably located at the garage sink since i have a 182g  or low point drain? That valve will be open in winter and closed in summer. Add a second shutoff valve between the cold line and the water pump(solenoid or pressure pump in the trailer?) which will be open in summer and closed in winter to make sure the pump feeds only through the hot water line in winter.  a little fuzzy on the second cuttoff, a T valve ?if closed how does water from the fresh tank reach the pump? wouldn't i just add a T to the hot water line to feed the solenoid input? The solenoid can go between the cold line and the fresh tank overflow line so it runs hot water back into the fresh water tank. Or you can run it back into the fresh tank drain, that might use less heat because you won't be trying to heat the bottom of the fresh tank from the top. 

 I used one of the little Chinese thermostats in another project to provide a precise temp control for the water heater. There is a thread on it on the forum.  It runs on 12Vdc which is available at the water heater controls and should be able to run a 12V solenoid valve just fine. The temp probe for the thermostat can go on the lowest place in the system (bottom of the fresh water tank or on the bottom of the pump feed line at the tank).  You can get 2 thermostats for $8 on Amazon and have a second one to adjust the water heater temp. 

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-One-channel/dp/B07CH7W3XP/ref=pd_sim_328_2/145-8709395-3663044?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07CH7W3XP&pd_rd_r=c892e5d4-1e83-11e9-8739-9941e184f583&pd_rd_w=85MgR&pd_rd_wg=JxkeJ&pf_rd_p=18bb0b78-4200-49b9-ac91-f141d61a1780&pf_rd_r=WXCJRBAXMZMVQD4HQMAY&psc=1&refRID=WXCJRBAXMZMVQD4HQMAY  do they come with a cover? 

A solenoid valve like this should work OK. You'll need some plumbing parts to connect it up. 
https://www.amazon.com/SNS-2W025-08-Electric-Solenoid-Normally/dp/B0794XJGBF/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1SJGTGMTXP1KO&keywords=12v+solenoid+valve&qid=1548188854&sprefix=12v+solen%2Cfashion%2C261&sr=8-5. 

CharlieM did this mod on another brand of trailer and has a link to it on this thread. i have studied charlie's thread and i am trying to go by his schematic of the flow and pump location. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 3:35pm
I'm not familiar with the plumbing arrangement on a 182g but if its anything like the 179 FR conveniently runs the hot and cold lines together. My endpoint is at the hot and cold low point drains by the fridge. 

I would suggest doing away with all the low point drains and sealing the holes with closed cell foam insulation. If you want to winterize with antifreeze just open the valve at the far end and run the antifreeze through the whole system that way. You'll want cutoff valves for your outside shower too. 

The second valve is just an inline valve to cut off pressure from the pump to the cold water line, a tee isn't required. Then the solenoid goes between the cold water line side (not the pump side) of that valve and drains into the fresh water tank. When the thermostat calls for heat the solenoid valve will open and the pump will pump water out of the fresh tank, through the hot water heater and out the hot water line. The hot water will return via the cold water line from the far point, run through the solenoid valve and back down into the fresh tank, thereby completing the loop and warming everything up in the process.  Hope that makes sense. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 5:44pm
am i on the right track ?Confused

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 6:14pm
Yep, and you raise a good point on the city water. I really never use that so I hadn't considered it. You'll want that disconnected for the recirc system to work correctly. That shouldn't be a problem because that connection would be the first to freeze up in the winter anyway. Just refill your fresh water tank with the city water if you run out. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 7:02pm
So the solenoid is triggered by thermostat A.  The opening of the solenoid relieves pressure which triggers the pump to come on and cause recirculating water to flow through system.  Thermostat B controls the water heater and triggers the water heater to come on as the recirculating water is cooled by running through the lines and fresh water tank. At this point the water heater is on, the pump is running and the solenoid is open. The water heater will reach the set point temp and turn itself off according to set point of thermostat B. Thermostat A will cause the solenoid to close at the set point.  Thermostat A should be a low temp like 60 deg, for instance. Thermostat B should be normal hot water temp of say 125 deg. The pump will continue to run until pressure is restored to system.  Correct?
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