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DavMar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Kitchen Sink
    Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:37pm

I’m beginning to think my Pod was built on a Monday morning or late Friday afternoon since it seems like it’s one thing after another I have to repair. At least I’m getting an education on RV repairs even if it’s the hard way!

My newest repair adventure is on the kitchen sink and the reason why I’m posting this information is to hopefully prevent some other Pod owner having the same trouble. I don’t know what earlier model R-Pods kitchen sinks are made out of or how they are mounted on the counter? Though if you have a late model Pod that has a stainless-steel sink that is mounted under the kitchen counter you just might want to take some time and look at how its mounted. It now my humble opinion that Forest River has made two major mistakes in their quest to maximize profits with the first being the substrate of the kitchen counter is made of Particle Board. Particle Board is fine product as long as it never ever gets wet but if it ever does it just sucks up water and sadly breaks down which is why in a camper trailer it’s a lousy product to use for a kitchen counter substrate. The second BIG fault that FR has done is how they mounting the kitchen sink and why if you have a Pod with an under the counter sink you need to take a look. For whatever misguided reasons FR only used eight wood square driver screws and only the lip of these screws holds the sink in place, crazy! All these screws need to be installed perfectly and if the just a couple are not or the silicon seal around the sink fails and lets water in between the sink lip and the Particle Board you’re in trouble!

My wife first noticed the sink had dropped on one of our camping trips and when we came home, I discovered FR terrible way of how they installed the sink. At that time, I just removed some of the mounting screws and installed some steel washers on the screws and reattached. Recently we returned from a trip where the cold-water supply in the bathroom sink faucet quit working. After removing the valve and blowing out the line I discovered some strange grit that somehow had gotten into the cold-water line and cleared that problem up. When I finished that repair I glanced at the kitchen sink and said what the heck when I discovered the sink cover board was not flush with the counter top. On further examination I found that the sink had dropped again off its mounting screws and worse had allowed a good amount of water to seep into the counter Particle Board. I want to stress my wife or I in no way misused or overfilled our sink but we all know that these little camper trailers take a pounding as we tow them down the road and it doesn’t take much water infiltration to start the Particle Board from breaking down.

I ended up removing the kitchen sink and was amazed at how much water the Particle Board has sucked up and its now sad condition around the opening for the sink. I had to sand around the sink opening because of the Particle Board has swelled so badly before I reinstalled the sink. I removed the old caulk from the sink and put a new bead of silicon calk on its lip before I reinstalled the sink. I also used larger fender washers on each of the eight screws that attach the sink but because of the water damage to the Particle Board I wasn’t satisfied with the screws holding and this repair. What I ended up doing is buying some 1/8” thick by ¾” wide aluminum bar stock and making eight mounting brackets for the sink which is what should have been done in the first place by FR. Let me tell you it was quite the contortion act getting my body under the kitchen counter to mount these brackets but its now done and hopefully I will never have to worry about this problem again.

Please forgive me for such a long post but I figure if it prevents just one of my fellow Pod owners with having to go through the same trouble, I have gone through its worth the length and time for me to write this and you to read.
Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:03pm
The change to a stainless steel undermount sink happened at the mid 2016 model year change. Ours is a 2016 and came with a plastic top-mount sink. If you look in my mods, you will see the stainless steel top-mount sink that replaced it as well as the faucet that replaced the cheap one that came with the R-Pod.

You are not the only one to have trouble with the undermount sink. We met another couple and were comparing R-Pod mods. When we went into his, the sink had dropped. He had a gallon jug of water sitting in the sink while going down the road and the weight was too much for the silicone sealant and screws. I am not sure how he fixed it. I would think that a top-mount sink will almost always be stronger during the rolling earthquake that happens as we go down the road.
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Happy Tripping View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 3:18am
I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. after I read your post, I looked at our older model r-pod 171 and thankfully it's sink is mounted above the counter top. The caulking needs, and will get immediate attention! The design and installation of your sink sounds like an accident waiting to happen. It reminds me of GM after the bean counters took over and quality became subordinated to cost.

In my view, the initial r-pod 171 and 172s were based on a time proven design with almost all of the kinks already worked out. Since then, with added things like slideouts and increased length, remedies of problems have been on the fly, as they arose. This sink situation is an example! I left our particle board table out overnight once and an unexpected very light mist led to major swelling of the edges of the table, luckily not so bad that I had to do significant repair, but VERY impressive. A particle board counter kitchen counter with a sink on top  may be ok IF the faucet and lines don't leak and IF the caulking is replaced regularly. I don't see this happening with such a poorly designed and poorly installed undercounter sink!

Unfortunately, it's too late for a lot of people like you. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 6:11am
Sorry about all the problems.

I hate to say this but the easiest and least expensive solution is probably just to remove the undercounter sink and install a drop in sink before the countertop is compromised. They should cost less than $100 and you could take the opportunity to upgrade the crummy faucet and the same time. 

If the countertop has been damaged but not too bad one fix I've used coming from my boating experience to deal with materials that get frequently wet but shouldn't is to use one of the new water tolerant epoxies to seal the surfaces. West Systems g-flex for example. Not cheap material but if you grind down the swollen surfaces/edges of particle board/osb/mdf materials and then give them a thick coating of g-flex it will adhere even if the "wood" is still a little damp and won't let any more water wick in there. Its also flexible so doesn't develop cracks that can let more water in.

If the "board" has swollen too dramatically (it can literally double in thickness) then unfortunately its probably time to remove and replace the countertop with some real exterior grade plywood, a new (lightweight-not granite!) work surface of your choice, and a drop in sink. That sounds terrible but its really not such a bad or expensive job for a small area like an rpod kitchen, and you'll have a proper installation with a nice custom look at the end of it. 
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 7:58am
+1 to offgrid's suggestions.  I have used epoxy on rotten wood, Get-Rot was the brand many years ago and it worked really well.  Any product from West=Systems will be of outstanding quality, so go for the g-flex and you'll probably be happy.  

We are fortunate to have the old drop in plastic sink [in fact, the other day I was eying a SS drop in replacement on sale for about $75] but we've had water intrusion problems along the edging of the counter top.  Water has gotten into the crack between the Formica and the edging strip and swollen the particle board very slightly.  At the suggestion of my wife, we put a strip of 3/8ths thick 1 1/2" plexiglass between the sink and the edge to keep the water from running off.  Her concern was it could get on the upholstery.  It is clear and runs next to the sink to the forward edge from the backsplash..  I glued it down and it has effectively eliminated the problem.

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would ever put an undermount sink on anything that can't be wet.  Water is going to get in no matter how well you think you've sealed it.  They look nice, but unless they're on stone or one of the solid plastic faux stone counters, they will eventually deteriorate any wood product substrates.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 10:03am
Its called sales and marketing. Sales probably complained that customers were shopping elsewhere because they wanted an undermount sink just like they had at home, not that ugly old fashioned drop in sink.  Then marketing did a survey or competitor swot analysis or some such and decided that was a feature that would sell more trailers.  No matter that a trailer kitchen and a home kitchen aren't the same thing.The engineering, manufacturing, and service people probably didn't get much of a say in the matter, if any. And all too often thats how that goes....
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DavMar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 1:16pm

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about the problem I’ve had with the under mounted kitchen sink. You all passed on some great idea’s on how to repair and resolve the problem. It didn’t occur to me to use an epoxy-based product to stop decomposition with the Particle Board. If my solution of using fender washers and under the counter brackets that I made and re-caulking doesn’t work out then I will use such a product to stop the Particle Board decomposition and convert to a drop-in sink.

Of course, I also think maybe the ultimate solution is to completely remove the counter top and replace it with a Corian counter top with the integrated molded in sink. Being that the counter in my 180 isn’t that large I’m sure a competent counter top shop can build a replacement out of this or a similar material for a reasonable price.

Right now my fingers are crossed that my repair resolves this problem and that Pod owners that have the same sink as mine check how their sinks are mounted and do preventive maintenance NOW! It will be interesting to see over time how many other Pod owners who have such under the counter mounted sink have the same problem.
Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the
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2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4
Lexington, NC
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marwayne View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 1:50pm
I replaced my particle board counter top with 3/4" plywood, ( half the weight ) put on oak edging and almond melamine for counter and  back splash. Also made a matching table.

V
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2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.


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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 5:01pm
marwayne, would you mind dropping down to Dayton, NV this winter when it's too cold in the north of Canada?  Last time ai was in Edmonton it was a Feb a few years back before I retired and it was way too cold.  You could help me with all kinds of improvements in my 172 Big smile.  

Seriously, though, you have done some incredibly nice work.  I like the drop down on the stove side of the galley.  I had added one over on the other side of the sink, but I'm lazy and just used a conveniently sized cutting board.  I also did the pedestal mount for the table. It sure makes getting in and out of the dinette easier.
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Fred & Maria Kearney
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 6:01pm
I can slide the tabletop back and forth  for easy access to seating area, the tabletop can be locked in any position.






If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.


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