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Topic ClosedElectric Brake Problem - Weak Brakes!
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tsherv View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Mar 2017
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Posts: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electric Brake Problem - Weak Brakes!
    Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 6:06pm
Hi,

I have a 2017 R-Pod 180.  Recently I repacked my wheel bearings and inspected my brakes.  I noticed that the 1 shoe on the drivers side was really worn.  I decided to replace the whole break assembly and hub.  Very easy replacement.  

After I got everything back together, I adjusted my brakes on both sides.  I adjusted them according to every youtube video I could watch.  I can spin the wheel on both sides, but hear a slight drag of the brakes.  

When I road tested it, I decided to set my brake controller (Prodigy IQ).  I quickly realized that my brakes were not doing much of anything.  I readjusted my brake controller.  I ended up cranking it all the way up.  As a result, I can feel the brakes working.  If I'm coasting at 20 MPH and hold my manual override button on the controller, I can just about make the truck and trailer stop.  I feel like they should be more powerful though.  If I crank up my brake controller, shouldn't I be able to just about lock up my trailer tires?  

We are leaving in 12 days for a 4,000 mile mountain vacation.  I really need to get this figured out!  

I've tried different combinations of brake adjustments and controller adjustments and seem to get the same results.  

Any advice?
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 6:26pm
It’s pretty common that even with the controller turned all the way up for the brakes on these travel trailers not to really be able to lock up the wheels. I put new brakes on both sides of mine and couldn’t get that. If you’ve tried a stop or two from about 20 mph using trailer brakes only and the the controller voltage at max then that’s might be the best you’re going to be able to do. Did you burnish them in as per the Lippert instructions?

One thing I noticed with mine was that the two sides were very different in terms of braking action initially. You can tell this with an ir thermometer, about $30 on Amazon. Make several about 40 to 20 braking actions and then pull over and check both sides. If they’re a lot different in temp (say 80-100 degrees or more) the cooler one isn’t doing its job. One common problem that can cause this is the magnet wiring.

If it was me I’d replace brakes on both sides just to keep the wear and brake action as even as possible.
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 7:09pm
If one side was worn down and the other side was not worn nearly as much, I'd say you had a balance problem before, and may still have one now, possibly due to brake wiring or some other issue, possibly grease on the brake shoes, star wheel not turning...or something.

Also, electric brakes tend to be a bit weak until they are 'burnished' in or 'settled' in. As stated by offgrid, they need to be operated several times at low speeds to get a feel for whether they are working. 

Then you need to either use an IR gun or the back of your hand and quickly feel the brake drums after a couple of stops. Both sides should be warm to hot, depending on how aggressive you are when braking.

If they are, you should be good to go. If one side is still cold, you have some more work to do.
r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 9:46am
I should have clarified that when operating the brakes to burnish them or to test them for temperature use your manual brake control so the trailer brakes are doing the stopping work not the tow vehicle brakes. You're not trying to burn them up, just get them up to temperature, 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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tsherv View Drop Down
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Posts: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 9:52am
I think I'm on to something: I tested the voltage of the blue wire coming from my brake controller while pushing the manual override. It measured 12 volts (which it should). When I tested the brake pin of the 7 pin connector, it only registered about 3 volts. I tested the blue wire right before it went into the 7 pin connector, and it measured 12 volts. I'm thinking maybe the 7 pin connector on my truck is bad? 
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:26am
Digital meters used for testing that voltage can provide odd readings. PWM outputs and proportional controls and built-in diagnostics can fool the sampling rate of the meter. Other issues can affect it also, since it is a high impedance meter.

What you need is an old school, incandescent 12v circuit test light. The kind with an actual (and clear) bulb in the handle, not the LED type. You can buy these at any auto parts store if you dont have one. This tester will put a small 'load' on the tow vehicle brake circuit.

Using the test light, test your battery to verify the tester is working, and to see how bright the light gets with 12-13 volts. 

At the rear of the vehicle, ground the lead and then probe the correct pin on the connector. It will be handy if you have a helper to operate the controller and press the brake pedal while you observe the test light.

The bulb brightness should vary from off, to dim, then to full brightness as the brake controller is modulated or the brake pedal is pressed.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:24am
Originally posted by tsherv

I think I'm on to something: I tested the voltage of the blue wire coming from my brake controller while pushing the manual override. It measured 12 volts (which it should). When I tested the brake pin of the 7 pin connector, it only registered about 3 volts. I tested the blue wire right before it went into the 7 pin connector, and it measured 12 volts. I'm thinking maybe the 7 pin connector on my truck is bad? 

Its hard to see what would cause the pin to be bad or the meter to be confused so that it gave a 3V reading when the wire connected directly to it gave a 12V reading. Were you using the same ground reference point in each case? Did you make a good connection to the pin when you tested it? 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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mjlrpod View Drop Down
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Posts: 1214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 7:14pm
I don't know whats normal, but, I just bought a tekonsha P3 and set it up. I noticed that when I step on the brakes, it takes a second or two before it starts to show voltage on the screen. But if I push hard on the brake, it will brake more quickly and the voltage jumps right up. Maybe this is what your feeling??? 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by mjlrpod

I don't know whats normal, but, I just bought a tekonsha P3 and set it up. I noticed that when I step on the brakes, it takes a second or two before it starts to show voltage on the screen. But if I push hard on the brake, it will brake more quickly and the voltage jumps right up. Maybe this is what your feeling??? 

That's set by the "boost" adjustment. There are two adjustments. The maximum braking action is adjusted first by setting the maximum voltage the brake controller provides, using the manual lever. This is supposed to be set to produce incipient lockup during a sudden emergency stop. That way in a panic stop you get all possible braking action on all 3 axles. The problem is the travel trailers are pretty heavily loaded so often can't be made to lock up their brakes even at the max voltage setting. 

The other adjustment (Tekonsha calls it "boost") sets how aggressively the brake controller increases the voltage output based on the deceleration it senses the rig is undergoing. The higher the deceleration rate the more aggressively you're using the tow vehicle brakes so the more aggressively it activates the trailer brakes.  So it essentially creates the balance between your tow vehicle and trailer brakes. You can set this as you prefer, generally the heavier the trailer relative to the two vehicle, the higher you want to set the "boost". What I do is use my IR thermometer to adjust the boost setting so the trailer and tow vehicle brakes get roughly equally hot after descending a long grade (using mostly engine braking of course). 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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