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JR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electrical
    Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 9:26am
I have installed some solar on my 179 and am getting some feedback I believe through the 12 volt side (lights, refrig controller, speakers, thermostat, and charge controller).  I have shut the WFCO breaker off going to the built-in converter.  I have installed a Zantrex converter, charger, and switcher (one unit).  

My question is: is someone familiar with how the polarity circuit works and is it just working in conjunction with the WFCO converter.  

My plans are to disconnect the wiring to the WFCO converter (not just simply turn off the breaker) and to disconnect the wiring to the polarity circuit.

Scratching my head,
Jay 
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JR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 9:34am
Sorry I didn't include all the information on the first post but my r-pod is a model year 2019 purchased in 2018.  The circuit that I am talking about is in the WFCO distribution box on the 12 volt side and is labeled (I think) as a 12 reverse polarity protection circuit and fused with a 40 amp fuse.
Jay

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 11:26am
Some more information would help. What Xantrex product model did you install? How did you connect it into the existing dc and ac circuits? Can you describe what you mean by feedback?

The reverse polarity fuses are just fuses in both the + and - legs connecting from the battery to the charger.

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JR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 8:52pm
Thanks offgrid but I am still confused even with your answer...I have a Xantrex 817-2080 it's a freedom XC 2000 that's 2000 watts continuous power and 4000 watts surge and it's true sine wave / the charge controller is a Morning Star ProStar MPPT-40M which has capabilities of handling 12/24 volts with a rated load rating of 30a and max. battery charging current of 40a also I have a tri-metric TM2025 RV battery monitor tied into the system.

The installation was to pull the shore power from the breaker box going to the WFCO converter and run a new 120v 12/3 wiring to the Xantrex located under the bed in a new compartment I made next to the water heater.  From the Xantrex I ran new 120v 12/3 wiring to the 120v breakers in the breaker box. The Xantrex is also hooked up to the batteries with 0-2 wire.  I have 4/100 watt panels mounted on the roof 2 wired in series and then 2 pairs @ 24 volts wired to the charge controller.  In addition I have 2/100 watt portable panels wired in series that can be plugged into the system @ 24 volts.  The peak amperage output of the panels are a little over 5 amps per panel so I will never be limited out going to the charge controller.  Due to weight restrictions I have limited my batteries which are outside on the tongue of the 179 to 2 deep cycle 12v batteries, I realize that this is the weakest link in my system.

On the 12v side all panels are routed to the charge controller and there are battery leads (+/-) going from the charge controller to batteries and all the 12v power to the house electrical needs goes through the load terminals of the charge controller.  This power is through 8 gauge wire (both + and - and that's through wire not a frame ground for the -) from the charge controller to the breaker box 12v side.

As I have indicated to disable the WFCO converter I shut off the 120 breaker in the breaker box leading to the WFCO converter and I have done nothing to reverse polarity fuse/system.

The problem that I am encountering is that when the batteries are reaching the current set point for going to absorption from bulk charging @ currently 14.4 (from 14.7) volts the 12v lighting starts turning off and on (when in on switch position), the refrigerator powers up and down when in the any of the running positions, the thermostat turns off and on when in the running or off position, the radio is powering up and down on matter whether it is on or off.  The TV is unaffected as nearly as I can tell.  When the radio is powering up and down there is a cackling sound coming over both speakers.  Reviewing the charge controller over an computer connection it shows radical swings in voltage and amperage reading of about 5 points each.  We have been experiencing these symptoms and we're trying to iron this out.  Have been working with the techs at Morning Star.  What I have tried to elevate these issues are first reset the high voltage cut off from 15.4 to 15.1 which didn't correct the problem, then ran a chassis ground from the charge controller to the Xantrax then to the frame of the pod which didn't correct the problems, then ran a dedicated negative load line from the charge controller to the breaker box (rather than using a chassis frame negative) which has not resolved my problems.

What I am planning on doing now to resolve these issues first physically disconnect the WFCO converter + and -, then physically disconnect the polarity circuit.  I want to make sure that physically disconnecting the converter and polarity circuit will not do any harm to the system that I am using.

If this doesn't work I guess the only other option is to replace the charge controller because I believe the charge controller is not ramping to a lower current going from bulk to absorption and then to the float mode.

Any help would be apricated,
Jay    
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 12:21am
Wow, quite a system you have there. I agree that your battery capacity is the weakest link, connecting 600 watts of PV and a 2KW inverter to 200AH or so of battery is going to result in some pretty good voltage swings.  Whether that's the underlying cause of your problems or not I'm not sure. 

So, I assume that you're using the Prostar to feed the 12V buss so you can use its LVD feature to protect your batteries? Where are you connecting the Prostar load output to the 12V buss?

I don't think you have any need for the reverse polarity function of the WFCO if you've connected everything with the proper polarity. Those are only there so they blow in case someone connects the battery backwards. The fuses are making connection between the WFCO charger and the 12V buss. The terminal labelled Vcc+ is where the WFCO charger +12V feeds into the buss. As you are suggesting, this connection can be removed as you will no longer be using the WFCO charger. The Xantrex will be doing your shore battery charging instead. Pulling the 40A fuse should do that, but you can confirm with a multimeter, or remove the wire from that terminal as well. 

If isolating the WFCO doesn't resolve your problem then next I would try bypassing the LVD function of the Morningstar. It seems like this is most likely what is causing the cycling off of your 12V loads. You can connect the battery directly to the 12V buss as it was originally (except with the WFCO charger disconnected) and see if that resolves the problem. its possible you might just have too much charge and discharge current going in and out of a small battery bank, causing cyclic behavior as the Morningstar is trying to operate both is overcharge and undercharge protection features.  If that fixes your problem then you can run the system like that for awhile and monitor the battery low charge condition manually, and start planning for that big Lithium battery capacity upgrade. LOL

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 7:09am
Thanks offfgrid that makes sense to me and I will try eliminating the polarity circuit first and disconnecting the WFCO controller.  As far as the +12feed from the load side of the controller, I can't remember now I'll have to check that out, I am assuming the 12v buss in the breaker box???  And yes I am using the LVD on the Prostar.  I will let you know what I find.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 9:11am
Yes, by 12v buss I meant the battery side of fuses in the panelboard. The Prostar should now be the only source feeding that buss so you can connect it to the buss terminals that were being fed from the battery before.

As you test things, bring up each device one by one, starting small. Leave the Xantrex off to begin with for example, and keep the loads and solar charging levels low so you can begin to eliminate potential causes and determine which device(s) and/or what charge/discharge rates are creating the interaction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 2:21pm
Thanks again I am going to start digging and just got off the phone with WFCO and they said that the way the circuit board is designed that the reverse polarity fuse can't be disconnected. Let you know what I find.
Jay

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 3:53pm
Are the batteries in good shape? Sounds as if when the incoming charge current is reduced, and the loads are all on the batteries, the battery voltage is falling flat. 

Then the controller ramps up and begins charging again. Then it falls into a 'loop'.....

Using a digital meter, probe across your battery terminals when the problem occurs, see if the batteries are 'failing' in between charge cycles. 

Also, see if all of your anticipated loads, or only a few of them, will operate properly from the batteries with no solar input at all, such as at night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 8:12pm
Thanks podwerkz for another thought, the batteries are less than a year old but that doesn't mean their good and I haven't checked them....something more on my to do list but I am still thinking that it is something internal to the system that I have not accounted for.  Just have to find it.

Offgrid I did call the techs at WFCO and they told me that if the 40a polarity fuse is taken out (or blown) then non of the 12v system off the circuit board will function (like the lights or radio), thus saying that the polarity fuse is plugged into the circuit board and can't be disabled.  Well before I got digging into the breaker box I removed the polarity fuse and all the 12v system that could be easily checked worked???  So I have removed the polarity fuse and physically disconnected the WFCO converter from the breaker box wiring.  As to the wiring of the +12v coming from the charge controller it goes to a 30a breaker located behind the breaker box and is joined on the same side of the breaker with a lead going to the 12v buss in the breaker box circuit board and the other side of the 30a breaker is routed off under the floor to the other side of the trailer and I am assuming that is the hot lead for the slide out motors.

Now I am waiting to get some sunshine and try to replicate the problems.  I may have located and resolved my issues (hopefully) but still get to check out the batteries as podwerkz has suggested.

Thanks to all
Jay

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