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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electrical
    Posted: 24 Jun 2019 at 8:45pm
Ok I’m confused.

You have the output of your charge controller going to a breaker not a fuse? Unless something has been changed in the new models the breakers are the 120vac side not the 12vdc side. The 12vdc side has fuses. There should be one for the slide motor for example. Try placing the +12v lead from the controller on the batt + terminal of the wfco board so it feeds the 12v buss. The terminal from which you removed the conductor which was originally going to the +-12v battery terminal. You likely will need to put the reverse polarity fuses back in. They are not your problem I don’t think.


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JR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 9:20am
Hi offgrid,
Sorry to be so confusing but not being an electrician I can get some terminology messed up.  But what I am trying to say is that in the  original wiring there was a orange wire maybe 10 gauge coming out of the back of the 12v side of the breaker box and that orange wire hooked up to one poll of an inline circuit breaker (maybe 30a) which was screwed to the floor behind the breaker box. Attached to the same poll of the inline breaker was a 8 gauge red wire running to the batteries up on the front of the trailer.  Connected to the other poll of the inline breaker (in other words being protected by the breaker) an orange wire ran under the flooring and over to the slide-out side of the trailer and I can't remember where the power ran to.  I was thinking that the orange wiring running under the flooring was for the slide-out motors but I am wrong because the slide-out has it's own dedicated circuit and is fused in the breaker box.  So I will have to do some more digging.

What I did when originally wiring the charge controller I used the + from the load of the charge controller to the 12v side of the breaker box, I disconnected the red + 8 gauge wire connecting the batteries to the 30a inline circuit breaker screwed to the floor behind the breaker box, then I used this wire to run the + from the charge controller to the 12v side of the breaker box.  The - wire was 8 gauge black wire connecting a 12v buss bar screwed to the floor behind the breaker box to the chassis frame back by the wheel and then on the front of the trailer from the frame to the - side of the batteries.  I originally disconnected this black wire from the batteries and use it for my - form the charge controller.  I have recently changed this wiring to run a black 8 gauge wire from the - charge controller to the - 12v buss bar screwed into the flooring behind the breaker box.

Currently the + from the charge controller which is an 8 gauge red wire connecting to the 30a (I believe) inline automotive style circuit breaker going to one side of the inline circuit breaker and from the same poll 10 gauge (I believe) routed to the 12v side of the breaker box.  The other poll on the inline circuit breaker screwed to the floor has a single wire running under the flooring to the other side of the trailer and I think that is a 10 gauge orange wire.

Also there is only one fuse on the circuit board controlling the reverse polarity system, not 2 fuses.  With that fuse removed and the reverse polarity system disabled the 12v lights and radio are still working (that's all I checked).

I will have to do some more digging to find out exactly where the orange wire that joined on the same poll of the inline breaker as the + 12v red wire from the charge controller is connected to.  My current thought is that it is connected to the circuit board.  I also will be discovering where the lone orange wire on the opposite poll of the inline breaker is routed to (the orange wire on the protected side of the inline breaker).

Hope this clears up some muddy waters.
Jay

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 10:11am
That orange wire should be the supply wire for the refrigerator 12v element. 

Remove the lower fridge vent outside and you will see it.

Mine has a 15a self-resetting breaker, and if it is overloaded, it will cycle on and off repeatedly until the overload is cleared. You will hear it clicking if it is doing this.

Yours might be 30a if it also supplies something else such as the slide motor.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 10:12am
It does, if I followed you there. I the more you describe what you have the more I suspect that your problem is going to wind up being battery capacity and not the reverse polarity fuse. But keep going, you’re on a good track. If you start getting the on/off cyclic behavior again I would start by bypassing the cotroller LVD and see if that stops it. I can’t think of anything else that would cut off your loads like that the way you have it wired right now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 10:15am
Thanks for the feed back I still have some digging to do.
Jay

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 2:49pm
Thx Podwerkz you are correct I didn't check the size of my inline breaker, it could be a 15a inline circuit breaker and yes the orange wire does show up at the refrigerator for 12v power.  

As a follow up to the problem I was having I called WFCO before I pulled the 40a reverse polarity fuse, didn't want to damage the circuit board, and found out when I told the service tech (seemed like a good one) that even though I had turned off the breaker and removed the 40a polarity fuse I was still getting power into my 12v trailer system.  The tech told me yesterday that removing the 40a fuse will do no damage to the circuit board but it will eliminate power to the 12v side from the built in converter on the WFCO breaker box.  Further more supplying power to the circuit board from another converter, like in my case, if you have removed the 40a fuse you will be powering the circuit board from another source anyway and the reverse polarity system will be non functional.  The reverse polarity system is wired between WFCO's converter and the circuit board via the circuit board.  This last statement is via my understanding only, not from WFCO.

The good news is I have been testing the system for the last 2 sunny days after having physically disconnected the WFCO converter at the 120v breaker and removing the 40a reverse polarity fuse, and the system has cycled through 2 complete cycles of bulk charging to absorption charging to float charging and I have been unaware of any feed back light flickering, crackling of the speakers, radio turning off and on, or any other abnormal behavior.  The charge controller seems to be limiting the charging amperage, which is suppose to be doing all along.  I am going to be checking the behavior of my system for a few days before I declare this situation resolved.

Thank you very much offgrid and podwerkz for all your insightful wisdom.  I couldn't have figured this out by myself.
 
Jay

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 2:59pm
offgrid I think I know the answer to this question before I ask it but here goes, is there a way to know the available amperage available from the solar array at any given time?  My understanding is that the solar array amperage, that in my case is being measured by a trimetrics battery monitor or by the Prostar charge controller is just the current (amperage) that is being processed (used) not what is available at the time in the array. 

Is my thinking way off?  Or is there a way to measure the available array amperage? 
Jay

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by JR

offgrid I think I know the answer to this question before I ask it but here goes, is there a way to know the available amperage available from the solar array at any given time?  My understanding is that the solar array amperage, that in my case is being measured by a trimetrics battery monitor or by the Prostar charge controller is just the current (amperage) that is being processed (used) not what is available at the time in the array. 

Is my thinking way off?  Or is there a way to measure the available array amperage?
It depends on the controller. Some are more comprehensive than others. We have some from Midnite Solar that give you so many metrics it's a challenge to keep up. The amps (or watts) that most display is what the batteries are absorbing at the moment. If the controller also displays array voltage, you can sort of infer what the panels are providing, but the voltage curves are not normally linear.

The solar array is inherently current-limiting; if you short the leads on a solar panel, it will just happily provide as many amps as it is capable of. If there's not a lot of sun, not too many amps. If the sun is full on, then it will be close to the maximum it can provide.
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by JR


Or is there a way to measure the available array amperage? 

 

Yes there is: Disconnect the panels from the controller and, using an amp meter or DMM with a high enough amp setting, and short the panel connectors thru the amp meter.

You can short a 100 watt panel and see about 5-6 amps in full sun. Two panels in parallel will double the amperage. Two panels in series will double the voltage but the amps will remain about the same.

Each solar panel should have an Isc rating, which is, essentially, 'amps, when short circuited'.






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 7:49pm
Thanks for the input but I am just a lazy one that just wanted to flick a button and see the amps available but I can get an idea through what voltage the array is putting out.  But thanks for the confirmation.
Jay

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