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Posts: 1067 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Actual Weights as measured
    Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 8:04am
I understand what Offgrid is saying. We have a 4x8 utility trailer that had a failure where the tongue met the body. It was a single 3x3 beam and not an A frame, so it had only a single point of connection.  Welding a reinforcement beam under the original beam and adding triangle gussets took care of the issue.
with the RPods A frame, at least there are 2 connection points.
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 5:57am
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

When my trailer comes back, I will re-enforce the tongue frame. I do believe there's more happening there then 'we' believe there is and worth the expense/effort.
At least the conversation of..

I'm always open to learning.


There is for sure more load being applied there by the wdh spring bars pulling down. Not to mention the dual batteries etc.  Even without the wdh and batts, there is a high load stress location on the trailer frame a bit under the front of the box. Its not as high as the spot just behind the axle but it's there. So reinforcement in that general area isn't a bad idea. It would probably be better not to lose too much clearance at that point so a 2 inch tube might work better than a 4 inch one which would be the way I think I'd go in the axle area. 
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 5:47am
Originally posted by David and Danette

  The way the WDH was explained to me which made sense to me is that the WDH works like a bridge. The camper axle as one shoreline and the tow vehicle front axle being the other shoreline. The tongue weight is supported at the center of the bridge. Does that make sense.

That's a good start, except that both TV axles are on the shoreline and we're trying to get more weight on the front axle and less on the rear because the rear one is on the edge of the cliff. Now, let's say the bridge contractor bought his bridge beams too short but still wants to use them so he puts a bolt through them and connects them at a center pivot point. Then to keep the whole thing from falling down he adds a spring between the two beams in the center holding them up. That's pretty close to what a wdh does. 
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by David and Danette

  The way the WDH was explained to me which made sense to me is that the WDH works like a bridge. The camper axle as one shoreline and the tow vehicle front axle being the other shoreline. The tongue weight is supported at the center of the bridge. Does that make sense.

Still think there's magic involved! LOL

I've come to a point of understanding the basic principles involved. Torque is something I get. The video and the way he does it, helped quite bit. To me it's how much force is being applied on on tongue frames to accomplish the feat (magic). 

The video is worth a watch and at one point he talks about what 'we' drive through and the added torque/force (?) that is applied. My questions are not if WDH (which he calls Load leveling and like that better) is good or bad.. It's what effect and how to compensate for. 
When my trailer comes back, I will re-enforce the tongue frame. I do believe there's more happening there then 'we' believe there is and worth the expense/effort.
At least the conversation of..

I'm always open to learning.
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Posts: 1215 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 12:42pm
  The way the WDH was explained to me which made sense to me is that the WDH works like a bridge. The camper axle as one shoreline and the tow vehicle front axle being the other shoreline. The tongue weight is supported at the center of the bridge. Does that make sense.
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 8:33am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 The WDH does not reduce the tongue weight, it distributes the weight. Effectively it will reduce the amount of the tongue weight applied to the rear axle of the TV, and distributes it to the front axle of the TV and back to the trailer axle. The amount that goes to each axle depends on the torque plus the length of the moment arms.

I watched yet another pretty good explanation of how WDH's work. To me there is still a bit of magic in this thing..

Even he states the weight on the ball remains, yet transfers/distributes the weight/torque. Magic I tell ya! It's gone, yet still there..
I like how he explains the action of torque the WDH does to compensate (?) the effect. So it's easier to understand why the weight remains, but the effect changes. Still say there's a bit of magic there..

Now he talked of the ball using most of this effect. I tend to wonder how much of this torque is also placed upon our hitch frame. Those of us that have, know how much pressure is on the WDH bars. For example only; if 200#'s are sent forward and 100#'s sent aft, then is the torque applied to the ball/tongue frame equal to that distribution? Or in order for the magic to happen, is it indeed greater..

Here's the video. He's informative and quite a kick to watch! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCgRiVNaXFc
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Posts: 2630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Jeepinator

Given all the smart people on this thread, I’d like to add another element. What is the underlying risk of exceeding tongue weight and will air bags reduce it?  I’ve not determined my exact tongue weight yet but I suspect I exceed the 350# even with the WDH. 

I am aware that sway and receiver/coupler damage are potential risk factors but I assume there are others. 

The TV and trailer are level when the WDH is engaged.
The WDH does not reduce the tongue weight, it distributes the weight. Effectively it will reduce the amount of the tongue weight applied to the rear axle of the TV, and distributes it to the front axle of the TV and back to the trailer axle. The amount that goes to each axle depends on the torque plus the length of the moment arms.

Also, air bags will not reduce the tongue weight. Air bags will increase the weight that your rear suspension can handle, but will not increase the weight the axle/bearings can handle or the weight the frame of the vehicle will handle.
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Posts: 72 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 6:50pm
Given all the smart people on this thread, I’d like to add another element. What is the underlying risk of exceeding tongue weight and will air bags reduce it?  I’ve not determined my exact tongue weight yet but I suspect I exceed the 350# even with the WDH. 

I am aware that sway and receiver/coupler damage are potential risk factors but I assume there are others. 

The TV and trailer are level when the WDH is engaged. 
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 5:05pm
I’m right at the upper limit for tongue weight on my TV, so a wdh is for me pretty much essential. I’m looking forward to removing the dual lead acid batteries and placing a lithium battery further aft, thereby reducing tongue weight. After your frame issues, I’m also thinking about frame reinforcement as well. I think an rpod with a 2x4 tube in the axle area, plus a 5200 lb rated axle, and some additional frame reinforcement under the A frame extending from in front of the wdh attachment to a couple of feet aft of the front of the trailer box would make for a pretty robust boondocking trailer at a relatively low cost. The area around the wdh attachment and the front of the box also theoretically gets some high frame loads.
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by offgrid


Since tongue weight is being calculated by subtracting the truck weight without the pod attached (#3) from the truck weight with it attached (#1) having the wdh engaged for #1 (which moves some weight to the trailer axle) should make the tongue weight reading appear too low, not too high. 

Reducing the "average" effective tongue weight by moving some to the trailer axle and some to the front axle is after all the point of having a wdh.  It is hard to get an accurate measurement of the effect of the wdh directly on scales though because its action depends on having all three axles on an exactly flat surface. Any bump, berm or swale will effect the measurement. Which is why a wdh isn't really considered to reduce tongue weight, the TV still has to be able to handle the full tongue weight when the TV rear axle is sitting a bit high and the tension on the WDH bars is reduced or eliminated completely. 

I understand what your saying. The whole idea and physic's about weight distribution is still something I'm learning about and wether or not it's better than re-enforcing your TV is better, if your TV is capable. 

For some, there's no choice. For some, even WDH will not work. I jumped pretty quick due to costs and not understanding. I wanted sway control and cost of a WDH with sway made sense at the time. I'm debating that decision now. 
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