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Topic ClosedPutting things into Perspective

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StephenH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Putting things into Perspective
    Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:55am
The bottom line in this all is that Personal Responsibility is essential. We should not expect government to "fix" this problem. All the rules and regulations in the world won't stop a virus.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:12am
And personal responsibility means not infecting others in your community.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:42am
Originally posted by offgrid

If the argument is that some of the deaths shouldn't count because those folks were gonna die anyway and Covid just hurried things along, I don't agree. We don't get to choose the time of someone else's death, that is not our decision to make. I for one don't choose to put my elderly dad on the chopping block so someone can go camping, or my wife (who is pneumonia prone) on a death list so some rich guy can make a killing in the stock market. 

I expect my government to do a good job protecting us and our families, that is after all its fundamental purpose. Certainly having a functional economy is part of that, and there is absolutely a valid debate to be had there, but arguing that those sick ppl would have died anyway should not be a part of that discussion (IMHO), it will just foment more division. 

There are several examples of east Asian democracies which have successfully controlled this with very low fatality rates, without lockdowns and maintained most of their economic activity while doing so, so its not like we really need to reinvent the wheel here. We would need to adjust our expectations of personal privacy for awhile. Those east Asia democracies decided to do that after SARs in 2003 so were prepared. Small price to pay IMHO compared to what's going on now. 


A not arguing, just stating a fact. EVERYONE DIES.

NO ONE I am aware of has suggested just letting at risk people die. That's absurd.
My parents fall in the "seriously at risk" category also. And damned if I can make them stay home or wear PPE from here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:44am
Originally posted by lostagain

And personal responsibility means not infecting others in your community.

It can also mean keeping yourself home, so you can't be infected, and realizing most people are trying hard as they can to do the right thing, but as with ALL things in life, some people, won't...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by furpod

NO ONE I am aware of has suggested just letting at risk people die. That's absurd.

Where did I suggest someone was directly stating that they wanted to "just let" at risk ppl die?

But if you relax restrictions during an epidemic there will be more cases and if there are more cases more ppl will die. Not rocket science. So when Dan Patrick and Dr. Oz and others suggest reducing restrictions they are stating that they are OK on balance if more folks die of this as long as other benefits accrue from doing that. They are entitled to that opinion and others are entitled to disagree. 

What gripes me is that we wind up with an all or nothing decision making process when there are effective alternatives to either scenario that other countries have successfully implemented, but we are so polarized that we can't seem to even have a rational conversation about them. Like, for example, location tracking via smartphone to identify and isolate contacts, and to enforce quarantine protocol for infected individuals rather than total lockdowns of whole populations. That has been proven to work well, no reason we couldn't do the same in the US that I can see. 

Government certainly has a critical role to play in establishing and enforcing public health policy in combating infectious disease. That is nothing new, a couple of generations ago that was completely accepted. That doesn't take away from personal responsibility, just like we should all exercise personal responsibility by not illegally throwing our garbage in the river even when no one happens to be looking. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 3:23pm
I fully agree that staying home both to protect yourself and to avoid inadvertently infecting others is the right thing to do.  Indeed, in our rare forays to buy food, we see most people acting responsibly, maintaining proper distance, wearing face masks, etc.  Washing your hands and following other disinfecting protocols is also important.   

The irony of this whole thing is that if we do all the things to avoid spreading the infection, those who are saying it's no big deal will claim that they are proven right because we did not have high infection rates, when in fact it would really be the quarantine procedures that worked.  Always the well prepared get the Monday morning quarterbacking when they avoided the disaster.

As for people suggesting that we should let people die, sadly there have been a number of prominent people who have said just that.  But to discuss it would really launch into a political discussion that we don't need to fight over.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 5:36pm
There is no law that says you have to go out. Stay home if concerned. If at risk stay home. Whatever happened to choice and that is responsibility. The country can't afford to pay everyone to do nothing, that is a limited no foresight plan. The models don't fit the threat. I'm glad we have done our part as a whole, but now it is time to move forward. What we are presently doing is not enduring.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 7:09pm
Unfortunately, many of us, especially in rural communities like where I live, don't have a choice about going out.  We can't get our food delivered and it is pretty unpleasant not eating.  So when we go out, we don't want to run into someone coughing in the grocery store all over the food we had hoped to buy.

Everyone wants to get back to normal as soon as possible.  The problem is that there are a lot of ill informed people who don't chose to believe the science and think that some how they will not pass the disease to others, nor can others pass the disease to them; kind of like the old Gardol shield.  The reality is that we need to listen to the public health experts and reopen in a manner consistent with good science.  If we jump the gun, we'll see a second wave, and maybe a third or fourth, that will be unnecessary and tragic.  (That's how San Francisco got hit with the second wave of the Spanish flu.  They were ready for the first, but let their guard down for the second and didn't take the shut down measures the second time.  But we seldom learn from history.)

I'm as tired of being trapped at home as anyone and am chomping at the bit to get outside and take my brand new travel trailer and brand new truck all over the country.  But I believe that my wishes need to be subordinated to the common good.  It's unpleasant, but necessary. 

Oh! where did I put that IV line for my gallon of Clorox....  Confused  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 7:15pm
Oh! where did I put that IV line for my gallon of Clorox.... Confused

This post is political, obviously, we watch the news, lets get back to camping issues. Stay home it is your choice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 9:10pm
I choose to care about my community and fellow man.
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
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