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Topic ClosedHave you weighed your 180?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Have you weighed your 180?
    Posted: 31 May 2020 at 7:42am
I did a W&B spreadsheet for my 179 a couple years ago, using the wheel hub datum as well. Did a weighing with a baseline load out including dual batteries and full fresh water tank. I almost always boondock. I was surprised by the tongue weight and also by the total weight. Never could work my way back to FR's numbers so I am assuming they are bogus. I suggest that everyone weigh their trailer at least once. 

I wound up with a tongue weight of 14% outbound (FWT full, gray empty) and 11% inbound (gray tank full, FWT empty). I'm happy with that. Trailer weight is around 3650 and doesn't change much. I use a wdh which adds about 90 lbs to the trailer axle, putting it at about 3350 inbound.  I installed axle reinforcement and bumped up to 15 inch LRD tires and 2450 lb rated wheels. 

The SAE Baja competition looks cool. Didn't know SAE had an aero design competition too. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2020 at 2:38pm
All of the design competitions are first rate and demanding.  The kids are expected to do a professional engineering design and a sales presentation.  The teams are scored on how well they designed the car and understand it.  then the car's performance is tested. Tenn Tech's course is brutal and looks designed to break the cars (it does).  There was only Baja 40 years ago.  I would choose Formula SAE, now. 
John
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2020 at 6:07pm
Finished my Spreadsheet for Wt and Bal.  I'll upload it if I can figure out how.  PM me and I'll e-mail you a copy.  This is messy, but you can see it.  

Weight and Balance – 2016 R-Pod 180








*Basic Weight 3122 Lbs
Tongue Wt 442 Lbs








Item
Weight
Moment Arm
Moment








# Basic Moment = 442 * 13.4 = 5923 Ft-lbs








*Batt/Rack (47 lb) =
* 10.3 = 0








*LP Tank (38 Lb) =
* 10.7 = 0








*Water Htr (50 Lb) =
* 8.7 = 0








Fresh Water (30g/250lb) =
* 5.6 = 0








Gray Water (30g/250lb) =
* -1.9 = 0








Black Water (30g/250lb) = 250 * -5.5 = -1375








Wardrobe =
* -4.5 = 0








Rt Storage Cabs (Ctr) =
* 1.4 = 0








Fridge =
* 3.3 = 0








Shower =
* -3.3 = 0








Rear Wall =
* -7.0 = 0








Center of Bed =
* 7.6 = 0








? =
*
= 0
















Total Weight = 3372
Total Moment = 4548 Ft-lbs








Tongue Weight = Total Moment / 13.4 = 339 Lbs








NB: All weight in pounds, all dimensions in feet.






* Included in Basic Weight & Moment






# Center of wheel 0.6 feet behind “axle”/Suspension mount















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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2020 at 7:40pm
Colt,
Your form looks very professional.  I measured the same items with close to the same results

I built a CG Range and weight graph .  I used inches because the fore and aft limits are only 1 foot apart.  All weights from12 inches to 24 inches keep the hitch weight between 9 percent and 15 percent of the hitch weight.  Past 24 inches no weight from empty to maximum load has a hitch weight between the limits.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 12:00am
When I bought my hitch, I wasn't thinking I'd ever really pull max load, and I bought a Curt because I know they fit without fuss.  So, this Curt is rated at 3500 lbs trailer and 525 lbs hitch weight.  There is a higher rated one, now, but not 3 years ago.  That's makes my concerns trailer and tongue weight.  Not too much, not too little.  And not too close to the limits, not knowing Curt's F.S.  I created it in Calc/Excel so it might run on my phone. 

The exercise was good.  I discovered there is not much way to get out of balance with normal loads in normal places.  Even a 100 pound generator in the bathroom is fine, unless the black tank is full and then you put it beside the fridge and Bob's your Uncle!  Fifty pounds of food and 50 pounds of clothes, no worries; put them anywhere.      
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 7:18am
Nice work guys. Neither of you guys fills the FWT or carries a second battery I guess. Adding those makes it very easy to exceed forward cg limits on my 179. 

tcj, one question. I see the lower left section of your w&b envelope sloping up and to the left. What is causing that limitation?

Also, I wouldn't suggest going as low as 9% on tongue weight on an rPod. There have been sway events on trailers loaded in that range. I did an informal survey and a post on that on this forum a couple of years back. I would recommend at least 10%, personally my minimum is 11%. Sway is scary Dead

OTOH, I think the 15% max tongue weight limitation is arbitrary. If your TV can easily handle more then what's the issue? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 8:14am
Offgrid,
The sloping line at the lower left is due to the hitch weight being too low at the lower total weights unless  the CG is moved forward.  At 3100 pounds the hitch weight doesn't get to 9% until the CG is moved forward to 14 inches.  At 3300 pounds hitch weight is good at a CG of 13 inches and at a total load of 3500 and above all is good with a CG of 12 inches.

Doing this exercise underscores Colt's comment about normal loads in normal places and CG is good.  I was surprised but...shouldn't have been...that the CG limit range is only 10 inches.  My Kitfox CG limits were only a 4 inch range but still easy to stay within.  I'll put the 11% hitch weight lower limit on the graph and see what that looks like.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 9:11am
Okay, here's the Loading graph with less than 11% loaded weight on the hitch noted as "caution area for sway"


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 9:39am
Originally posted by tcj

 At 3100 pounds the hitch weight doesn't get to 9% until the CG is moved forward to 14 inches.  At 3300 pounds hitch weight is good at a CG of 13 inches and at a total load of 3500 and above all is good with a CG of 12 inches.


I must be missing something. 9% hitch weight should always occur when the cg is 9% of the distance between the wheel hubs and the hitch, regardless of the trailer weight, shouldn't it?  14.4/161=.09?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 10:33am
Offgrid,
Your right.  The CG at +12 inches is only 7.5% of the distance from wheel hubs to hitchEmbarrassed

The vertical the left side of the graph should go straight up from the 14.4" CG.
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