Unable to get Generator to power Air Conditioner |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Topic: Unable to get Generator to power Air Conditioner Posted: 27 May 2020 at 12:16pm |
You are underestimating the startup current demand on the Dometic 13.5. It can be in excess of 40A, but they are not identical and even with the same unit the current requirement varies with temperature and with how long the compressor has been off. This isn't the first report that a 3KW generator failed to be able to start one. A typical residential circuit breaker is designed to hold at least 7x its rated current for a few tenths of a second, which is plenty long enough. Depending on its design and protection electronics a generator might or might not be able to do the same thing. Generators store energy in their rotating mass to handle surges, but inverter generators have to be able to pass that power through their electronics without damage. Briggs is limiting those currents more that Honda is, proportional to the continuous power ratings of its generators. That is not a coincidence, I would bet Honda uses relatively higher capacity components than Briggs does. That would increase their costs but provide a higher level of reliability, and that's what we see: Hondas cost more but have a top notch reliability record. The Easystart reduces that 40-ish A startup surge by about 2.5-3X, well within the range of a Honda 2K. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GCRicker
Newbie Joined: 22 May 2018 Location: New Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 32 |
Posted: 27 May 2020 at 9:30am |
I'm going to try contact Briggs and Stratton and see what they say. Forgetting all the numbers and math, I'd like to know why others can run their Dometic AC using that generator and I can't.
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Posted: 27 May 2020 at 9:01am |
I can understand a 2K generator not being able to start the AC. I can't see any situation in which a 3K generator would not be able to start and run the AC unless either something is defective in the generator or the AC. If the AC starts without difficulty when powered by shore power, it should start with a 3K generator. After all, it is running on a 15A circuit breaker. That generator should be putting out around 24A steady and 27A surge, which should be more than enough. A typical 2kw generator would be putting out 1600W steady (14.5A) and 3000W surge (18A). This is a 3kw generator in question. I still think something is wrong with the generator. That is why I suggested contacting the manufacturer for warranty service if it is too late to return it.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:40pm |
A hard start kit is not doing the same job as an Easystart, it's job is to get the compressor started under heavy load. Those devices will only reduce the current demand of the compressor a little, if at all. The Easystart reduces it to the point that the surge is essentially unnoticeable. Try it if you like, if you're close it might work, but if you want to avoid frustration and multiple installs, the Easystart is the proven solution.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GCRicker
Newbie Joined: 22 May 2018 Location: New Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 32 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:30pm |
I found something on the web that is much cheaper. A Dometic 3310727007 KIT, HARD START <SL>. Does anyone know if this would work instead of the $300 Easystart? It’s even from Dometic.
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:17pm |
Some 3kw generators can start the a/c, some can't. Even if you could return the generator, consider the extra size, weight, and fuel use of a larger one. The Easystart is not at all difficult to self-install, and once done its done. Big gennies are backbreakers to load and unload and move around the campsite every time, and depending on your TV can push you over the edge of safety in loading your rig. Other than starting the a/c, there's really nothing you need a big 4.5 kw generator for in an rpod. That's why I opted for a 2kw and the Easystart, the 2kw only weighs about 48 lbs, and converted to propane there is no need for an extra fuel source either.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:07pm |
Remember too that a 3000 watt generator is 3000 peak (surge) watts, not 3000 running watts. It is rated for 2600 running watts. That generator should be more than capable of starting and running the AC. I have a Generac iX2000 (2200 peak, 2000 running watts) which can start the AC. I did install a Micro-Air EasyStart also and I do recommend it. However, if that generator won't start the AC, I think it indicates a problem with the generator. I would contact the manufacturer and put in a warranty claim since it is not performing as it should. A clamp-on meter like the Southwire Digital 600-Volt Test Meter which can test both AC and DC amperage is reasonably priced from Lowe's at a little lower price on Amazon.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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Colt
Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 383 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 7:02pm |
Dometic says their 13,500 BU A/C runs at 12.5 or 12.6 amps. https://www.dometic.com/assets/58/97/3312501_55897.pdf?att=true If the standard 2.25 factor is applied for in-rush current that is 28.1A or 3375 watts at 120V. Your P3000 is a 2600watt/21.7A generator with 3000W peak (25A). https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/generators/portable-generators/p3000-powersmart-series-inverter-generator.html You just don't have enough generator. So, is it cheaper to have a soft-start installed or trade up to a P4500? Since you haven't had it long, maybe your dealer will be kind. If you don't ask, the answer is already "no".
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John
'16 R-Pod 180 |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 3:02pm |
The 107% for a minute before generator shutdown sounds OK to me. To be certain, you could try turning off either the micro or the water heater and adding an 800-1000 watt blow dryer or something like that instead. See if your genny will stay running at something in the 2700-3000 watt (90-100%) range. Once you've established that to your satisfaction then you can turn your attention to the a/c unit with high confidence that its the startup load that is killing the genny.
An Easystart is a soft start device that is mounted inside your roof air. It is indeed pricey but it works very well, I have one and it allows my Honda 2K to start the a/c. The hardest thing about installing it is that you are working on the roof of the rPod. You have to reconnect a few wires from the existing start capacitor in the Dometic to the Easystart. Then you run the Easystart through a few starts so it can "learn" and minimize the starting load current. The instructions are pretty good, as is the customer support, and several of us have installed them so you can ask any questions you have on the forum.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GCRicker
Newbie Joined: 22 May 2018 Location: New Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 32 |
Posted: 26 May 2020 at 2:26pm |
OffGrid. Thanks for your quick reply. I tried again since it's been over an hour since my last attempt. I flipped the microwave and converter breakers off, and the generator's display showed me that 0 % of my capacity was being used, versus the 2 % when I left the microwave and converter on in my previous attempts. Also, I put the fan speed to low on the air conditioner (rather than auto), and tried again. Same result. Generator immediately faulted after the compressor turned on. I do not have current meter clamp, however, i tried your load idea of water heater and microwave. That worked for about 1 minute with the display on the generator showing 107.1 %. Then after that minute, it too went into fault mode. I'm not sure what all this means. Do you think my generator is okay, and it's my air conditioner creating more of a load then other RPod air conditioners? Does it matter that my 2020 RPod 190 is brand new and that the air conditioner has only been tested at the dealers and never really been used? (I don't have a 30 amp outlet at home.) I don't think at this point I can return the Briggs and Stratton generator. What is an Easystart, and is it expensive? Is it easy to install? Thanks for all your help.
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