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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Broken Welds on Floor Joists
    Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 5:25am
Originally posted by lostagain

I could be wrong, but at least based upon the videos from the FR factory, Lippert makes the chassis but not the floor structure.  The aluminum welding is by FR's employees.  And in fairness to the welders, they are not really given the time to do a workman like job.  

One can push FR to do something, but the chances of success under these circumstances, are slim to none.  Yes, you can pay some welding shop person write a letter and tell FR the welding was lousy, but if you think that will be persuasive to them, I've got a bridge I'll give you a good deal on.  To have a metallurgist examine the welds and write an "expert" opinion would be very costly.  The costs of convincing FR that they messed up would far exceed the fair market value of the trailer.  .... and that's before you even thought about bringing in the evil ones, .... the lawyers.

If Olddwawgsrule is wiling to take it off your hands and is willing to drive to beautiful Ontario, take him up on it.  It's far better option than having to pay a junk dealer to haul it away.  

I was speaking of you! She's doing the deed.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2586 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 8:19am
Old, I don't quite follow what you are saying when you say "I was speaking of you."

Do you truly think that if Belinda has Geoffrey's Welding and Farm Supply write a letter saying that FR did a lousy job on the aluminum welding that FR is going to pay any attention to it?  I will give you 100 to 1 odds that they'd shrug, then send a nice letter back saying that they believe the problem was causedowner neglect and a lack of maintenance that they will not repair.  If she hires Failure Analysis, Inc. at about $1000 an hour, I'm sure in at least 15 hours of careful field and laboratory examination, plus travel and lodging, she can show that the welds were probably tack welds and could have been done better.  When FR gets the Failure Analysis, Inc. report, they will dutifully read it, admire the careful and thoughtful work, then send a letter back declining the repair because the trailer is out of warranty, is over a year old, was not purchased from an authorized dealer, and that the problem was caused by owner negligence and lack of maintenance.  Belinda will be out maybe $15-20K and no better off than she was before she went to Geoffrey's Welding.  Again, I could be wrong, and ususally am, but that doesn't seem like a very good way to spend one's money.

You stated: "If this ever happens to you, give me a call. I'm come pick it up and get it off your hands."  I suggested to Belinda in my post that she avail herself of your remarkably generous offer.  Were you making that offer to her?  Or was that just hyperbole that you were directing to me?  Best if she could sell off the valuable parts, but given the age of the trailer, there isn't much besides the various circuit boards that is worth a lot as salvage.  Your kind offer to haul it away is truly the optimum solution, if you were making it good faith, and she should avail herself of that opportunity.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by mjlrpod

I can tell you without a doubt, those welds are absolutely no good. On one photo, you can see there was zero penetration on the floor joist. It was a cold weld and not up to standards. I would pursue that with forest river for sure. Get a weld shop to write you an opinion on that weld, they will know just looking at it it was a cold torch. 


Consider that the welds are probably only there to tack the aluminum frame together until the plywood is attached. I'm guessing that's why FR doesn't care how its welded. The plywood ties everything together. If its dry that works fine but if it gets wet then there is no structure left. Put another way, I'm not convinced the welds were the root cause of this problem, I think its more likely that the water intrusion happened first. Just my opinion. 

Oh come on now... Those welds are there to support the exterior wall, not the plywood. 

Nope, you are thinking about the construction as if it were an old school stick built house, but its not.  The floors are a laminated diaphram system, look at just around 2 minutes into this video. The system depends on all the components working together to support the structure. The whole thing is glued together under pressure. The plywood is a crucial element, if it delaminates then the whole system fails. This is how the trailer manufacturers save weight (and not incidentally cost) but it makes the whole trailer much more susceptible to water intrusion. 

If you want to see the tack welding procedure its around 40 seconds in. There is no way tack welding that thin wall aluminum square tubing like that can carry the loads without the plywood glued to it. 

If you spent all the money on legal fees and expert testimony as LA referenced, FR would simply point out that this is normal construction practice in the ultralight trailer world and works fine unless the trailer has been neglected and water intrusion has occurred. 
 

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 1:23pm
Solution: Lots of full coverage insurance and a can of gasoline. 

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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2586 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 2:28pm
Um, err, I kind of think that in countries that have the rule of law, insurance fraud and arson, not to mention unauthorized burning of trash, could be a crime, but perhaps I'm wrong again.  

Maybe hauling it down to New Hampshire, abandoning it, and escaping back to Ontario might be the trick.  

If it'd make it to NV, heck, it'd fit right in with all the other trailers that have been abandoned.  We drive by one every time we go into town.  Big smile
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by lostagain

  

If it'd make it to NV, heck, it'd fit right in with all the other trailers that have been abandoned.  We drive by one every time we go into town.  Big smile

Dunno, rpods might be a little on the small side to be meth labs.Evil Smile
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2586 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 5:54pm
They don't make meth in Dayton.  That's in Silver Springs, 15 miles east of here.  And rPods are perfect to store the chemicals and final product.  Ouch
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by lostagain

They don't make meth in Dayton.  That's in Silver Springs, 15 miles east of here.  And rPods are perfect to store the chemicals and final product.  Ouch

Acetone, benzene, ethanol, ether, phosphorous, toluene. No gasoline required for those trailers, although that is sometimes used to cook meth too. 
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2586 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 8:19pm
What about ephedrine?   I can't buy any more in our local Krogers (aka Smith's).  They're too busy setting records on Oxycodone sales to mess with a stuffy nose.  
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 9:41pm
I think this drug making talk is not only irrelevant to the topic but to the forum. It doesn't help Belinda at all.
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