Broken Welds on Floor Joists - R-pod Owners Forum

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lostagain

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Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Topic: Broken Welds on Floor Joists
Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 10:25pm

You are right, but given the condition shown in the photos, it is pretty clear that even if it is theoretically repairable, it is really an economic total loss. There isn't a snowball's chance in infierno that FR will fix it under warranty. The topic is really exhausted and that's when we usually see some "bigly" topic drift.

I think we all feel bad for Belinda and wish her the best in managing this awful situation.

Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

podwerkz

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Posted: 12 Jul 2020 at 10:28pm

Originally posted by StephenH

I think this drug making talk is not only irrelevant to the topic but to the forum. It doesn't help Belinda at all.

You're right of course, but I dont think anything we say or do can help....other than offer condolences for a trailer that is probably destined for the scrap heap.

I guess if ended up with a trailer in that kind of shape, I might be tempted to consign it thru an auction house. The trailer can be listed as 'non-operable', which protects the seller and auction house. Then it is up to a buyer who KNOWS they are buying a unit with issues.

It might bring a few thousand that way....who knows.

r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

offgrid

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 7:13am

Originally posted by StephenH

I think this drug making talk is not only irrelevant to the topic but to the forum. It doesn't help Belinda at all.

OK Valid point.

If it was my trailer and I really wanted to try to save it without rebuilding from bottom up here's what I'd think about doing.

1) place trailer on jack stands on level concrete.

2) measure and pre-fabricate a steel cantilever support for the wall that has dropped. It would have maybe a 1x2 tube on edge that would run the length of the wall, with brackets that extend from the tube to the main 2x4 trailer frame rail.

3) place cantilever support structure under wall. Using several floor jacks, lift new support structure to raise wall to its proper position

4) weld brackets to 2x4 frame tube.

5) remove jacks

Now the wall is back where its supposed to be and the floor is no longer trying to support it.

6) So, working inside, remove all the damaged plywood, foam, etc.

7) cut new marine grade plywood to size

8) attach this plywood to the new brackets

8) make spacers the right thickness and glue them to the plywood.

9) place foam insulation between the stringers

10) glue and screw a top plywood layer to the stringers.

11) install new finish flooring

12) seal the bottom plywood layer from underneath

Side note: I made 2 step 8's deliberately so I could call this the 12 step program for rPod rehab. Big smile

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Olddawgsrule View Drop Down

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 7:21am

Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by mjlrpod

I can tell you without a doubt, those welds are absolutely no good. On one photo, you can see there was zero penetration on the floor joist. It was a cold weld and not up to standards. I would pursue that with forest river for sure. Get a weld shop to write you an opinion on that weld, they will know just looking at it it was a cold torch.

Consider that the welds are probably only there to tack the aluminum frame together until the plywood is attached. I'm guessing that's why FR doesn't care how its welded. The plywood ties everything together. If its dry that works fine but if it gets wet then there is no structure left. Put another way, I'm not convinced the welds were the root cause of this problem, I think its more likely that the water intrusion happened first. Just my opinion.

Oh come on now... Those welds are there to support the exterior wall, not the plywood.

Nope, you are thinking about the construction as if it were an old school stick built house, but its not. The floors are a laminated diaphram system, look at just around 2 minutes into this video. The system depends on all the components working together to support the structure. The whole thing is glued together under pressure. The plywood is a crucial element, if it delaminates then the whole system fails. This is how the trailer manufacturers save weight (and not incidentally cost) but it makes the whole trailer much more susceptible to water intrusion.

If you want to see the tack welding procedure its around 40 seconds in. There is no way tack welding that thin wall aluminum square tubing like that can carry the loads without the plywood glued to it.

If you spent all the money on legal fees and expert testimony as LA referenced, FR would simply point out that this is normal construction practice in the ultralight trailer world and works fine unless the trailer has been neglected and water intrusion has occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXneKc_fDo

I'm sure you know what a SIP's panel is.. Even those when used as floors have a box end or joist between (yes plywood yet vertical). Sorry, but a horizontal plywood connection, especially the thickness used, will not hold and explains many issues I read about. If you are correct that they build as you say.. it's a design/structual issue all should be aware of.

My opinion as a design/builder of Overland Trailers. Currently two pending orders for custom builds.

Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander

lostagain

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 8:09am

I think OG has a realistic approach to fix the trailer, though no one really knows the full extent of the floor deterioration and how far into the trailer the rot extends. Keep in mind the sequence of construction of a new trailer, at least as evidenced by the rPod factory videos. First the insulated/laminated structural floor panel, including the floor covering, is attached to the chassis. Then the interior components are partially installed, such as the bath/toilet module and the slide out galley unit. Then come the walls, and, finally, the roof. If the damage extends under the galley or bath, they have to be removed, repaired and replaced. Removing either of them, though it can be done, is time consuming and costly.

The repairs OG proposes, would likely take at least a couple weeks. Add the cost of labor to the cost of materials and specialty shops for welding of thin box tubing, and you will have probably exceeded the fair market value of the trailer. It would be less costly to go to the 2nd hand trailer market and buy a comparable trailer than to fix it.

If the trailer was some kind of a collector's item that had its own unique and irreplaceable characteristics that made it exceptionally valuable in a 2nd hand market, then one may want to consider a repair. But, for heaven's sake, we are talking about a lower end of the market travel trailer that is about as ubiquitous as a bag of pinto beans.

No one seriously argues that the damage is irreparable. That isn't really the issue. Sure, this trailer, basically constructed of 3 SIP panels (the floor and two walls), can be repaired, but replacing all or part of the floor panel is complicated and expensive. Many people enjoy working on projects like that. It's fun if you have the time and resources to pay for the materials. Cost ceases to be an issue in that case. But if you are not someone who owns a shop that is tooled up to work on a project like this, it will start to look like one of those old car restoration projects that goes on and on until you get tired of having the old rusty junker in your garage and haul it off to the scrap metal yard.

Travel trailers are built with an intentionally short service life so you will frequently replace them and make companies like FR happy and profitable. This trailer is beyond that service life. It's time to recognize that reality.

Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

StephenH

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 8:50am

Thank you. It is unfortunate that Belinda was put in this position. That reinforces that it is critical to keep an eye on things and to fix any leaks before things deteriorate. I had one leak that ws hard to pin down. When the water heater was installed, whoever installed the cover sealed it, but not well. The dealer added more sealant, but just added it over what was there. What was wrong is that the sealant was placed over one of the labels instead of moving the label out of the way. Water just went behind the label and into the space behind the frame where there was an opening that led into the wall. When I drained the water heater, water would come out on the underside of the trailer. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. Fortunately, I did not make it a practice to drain the water heater after every trip, so it had a chance to dry out between times. I removed the ouside cover frame and totally sealed it properly so now there is no leak. That was one leak source. Another was water coming in from the slide. It was somehow coming down and running in though the slide-out frame. My dealer removed and re-sealed the outside flange (possibly more also, but I don't recall).

This does not help, but should serve as a reminder to check out and fix any leak before it causes much bigger problems.

StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 9:04am

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

.

My opinion as a design/builder of Overland Trailers. Currently two pending orders for custom builds.

Yep, its like a SIP. I never said it was a good design, just that it is what it is. I wouldn't build with SIPs in a location potentially exposed to moisture intrusion either. There is a lot to be said for good old fashioned stick built structures where the designer isn't depending on components doing multiple functions. Unfortunately, with resources getting more scare we're going to see more and more of that going forward.

And LA, I'm not proposing the repair steps I laid out as cost effective, just a starting point of what I would consider doing if I really wanted to save the trailer and didn't view my time as having any value.

Come to think of it, I'm retired, my time really doesn't have any value. Embarrassed

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 9:16am

OG, I didn't say you were advocating your repairs as cost effective. I fully recognize that you were talking in theory only. And, honestly, the scope of repairs you proposed just scratch the surface if the water damage intrudes as much as 5' into the trailer from the rear. Then the head module and the slide out have to be dealt with.

As for the value of time, I'm retired too and I feel my time is infinitely valuable, at least to me. Every moment is precious and irreplaceable. That's why we're leaving to go camping in a couple hours. The value of enjoying my free time is priceless.

Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

podwerkz

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Location: Texas
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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 11:01am

So...we are back to the can of gasoline.

r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

Olddawgsrule View Drop Down

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Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 4:51pm

Originally posted by podwerkz

So...we are back to the can of gasoline.

Luv ya dude! Your mind is nearly as bad as mind..

But not quite yet! I do believe Belinda is on the right track and at her last post and had family/doer's that can make it happen (without gas..). The can.. that could be weld material though.. I won't scrap that as of yet...

Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander