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Topic ClosedBroken Welds on Floor Joists

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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Broken Welds on Floor Joists
    Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


I'm sure you know what a SIP's panel is.. Even those when used as floors have a box end or joist between (yes plywood yet vertical). Sorry, but a horizontal plywood connection, especially the thickness used, will not hold and explains many issues I read about. If you are correct that they build as you say.. it's a design/structual issue all should be aware of.

My opinion as a design/builder of Overland Trailers. Currently two pending orders for custom builds.

Yep, its like a SIP. I never said it was a good design, just that it is what it is.  I wouldn't build with SIPs in a location potentially exposed to moisture intrusion either.  There is a lot to be said for good old fashioned stick built structures where the designer isn't depending on components doing multiple functions. Unfortunately, with resources getting more scare we're going to see more and more of that going forward. 

And LA, I'm not proposing the repair steps I laid out as cost effective, just a starting point of what I would consider doing if I really wanted to save the trailer and didn't view my time as having any value. 

Come to think of it, I'm retired, my time really doesn't have any value. Embarrassed

A good start to see you know of SIP's are what they are capable of. No, the system as you explained is not only poor, it's acceptable! This floor is not a SIP as defined, yet a hybrid. Which means those joints 'need' to be welded well. Sad to see they are not and do believe if not recurse, at least a formal statement of what is found. It will help those in the future!

I have done tack welds.. shall I say.. I can still jump on today. Penetration of the weld is everything. Tack or bead. There are times that tacking or what is called sewing/stitching to us older folks is the best way to meet two metals together. Sorry, but system or not, those welds should hold on there own. 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 7:46pm
FR's panels are like SIPs in that they are a laminated composite.  They are certainly not SIPs as defined for use in residential construction. 

The ability pf plywood to resist deformation when shear through its thickness is applied is very good.  IOW, its really hard to tear plywood. So, as long as the plywood and the adhesives holding the assembly together have not been compromised by water intrusion, you probably wouldn't need to weld the aluminum at all. The plywood will hold the aluminum pieces at the same level

Besides, its clear that the floor panels are adequate if not wet or we would all have collapsing rpods. 
But once wet, the adhesives and the wood plies give way and the whole structure fails. So do I think the system is acceptable? Yes, if you can guarantee it stays dry. 

But in practice it can get wet, so I too would favor better welds for that reason. But your or my personal preferences for a more robust and foolproof design doesn't make the way FR does it wrong. That's how engineering works, you give the engineer a set of specs and a cost target and he comes up with a design that meets them, If those specs don't include "oh BTW it has to stay together when saturated with water" then you'll get the kind of thing we see here. 

Cost was obviously on all of our minds when we chose rpods over better constructed alternatives, so we really shouldn't complain. We got what we paid for and know by now where most of the weaknesses are: axles, tires, the frame, water intrusion, the crappy black tank pipe hanger, etc. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 10:11pm
Thanks for the 12 step rehab program.  A lot of feedback and perspectives.  Thank you to all who have replied.  I will keep you posted as I explore the suggestions.  Again - thank you!  Belinda

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 8:43am
Just saw the question about off roading. My trailer was not used off road by me and it had very little use when I purchased it in the spring of 2015.  
Belinda
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 9:07am
Originally posted by Junkinpod

Just saw the question about off roading. My trailer was not used off road by me and it had very little use when I purchased it in the spring of 2015.  
Okay. Thank you for more information on the situation. I hope you find some resolution that will be satisfactory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 12:05pm
Giving a special shout out of thanks to Belinda for her help with an identical problem on a 2015 179 R Pod.  Attached are photos of the broken floor joist approximately mid span of the slide out. This resulted in a downward shift of the sidewall of 1-1/2 inches.  I find it hard to believe that Forest River does not have more of these issues with the light weight RVs they manufacture using the same design. Having a composite floor supporting an overhanging outer wall without outrigger support is simply unacceptable.

 Not only is the design flawed, but the pitiful excuse for welds is beyond belief.  The square tubing itself that make up the floor joists is only 1/16 inch in wall thickness and the Luan plywood is 1/8 inch.  I will be using the same remedy as the original post and have outriggers manufactured and welded to the frame.  The existing floor will be a mess to clean up with mold present over 40 percent of the floor space.  I will go back with a 3/4 inch marine grade plywood.  The only alternative I can see is to scrap it and sell it for parts.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 8:31am
Thank you all for the helpful posts. I have the same issue with my 2016 176 rPod with the left slide sagging.  I orginally thought Forest River was going to cover the claim based on what they were telling me, but then did an about face when Lippert apparently denied coverage.  They never denied my claim of a structural design problem, but rather stood behind the fact that I was the second owner (even though it was like new when I got it), and also that the trailer is "out of warranty."  The video they posted is misleading at best as the trailer is clearly not designed to be with you for "years to come."  Mine had a leak caused by a pinhole created by stress on the plumbing from the sagging wall.  Now the dealer says there's substantial water damage to be repaired and Forest River is denying the claim.  For your information, there are laws that prevent deceptive practices even though a warranty was "waived" or has expired.  Depending on the state, this could allow the recovery of three times damages as well as attorney fees.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:12am
There are very few states where consumer protection laws are strong enough to help in this instance.  In addition, law suits are very expensive to prosecute.  The costs of litigation, including "expert" witnesses, attorneys' fees, and other "costs" could easily exceed the value of the trailer by 5x.  [No sane attorney would take this case on a contingent fee in my view.]  Texas is not one of the "consumer friendly" states where treble damages and attorney's fees would be likely to be available.  Further, the fact that there was an ongoing water leak makes the matter harder to prove.  FR would argue that that was a failure of maintenance that should have been addressed.  Even in "consumer friendly" states, such as California, this case would probably not go far in the courts.
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