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Topic ClosedRelocating LP tanks and tongue jack to clear lift

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1955Shoebox View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Relocating LP tanks and tongue jack to clear lift
    Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 11:54am
I tow a 195 with my Subaru Ascent.  The liftgate does not clear the power tongue jack.  I have to use an extended hitch which increases the tongue weight causing squat.  Has anyone moved the LP tanks (I have two 20lb) back closer to the batteries and then moved the jack back?  Thanks
2020 R-POD 195
2019 Subaru Ascent
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 2:40pm
How much room do you need? 

There are shorter jacks and manual jacks are both lighter and smaller. 

A longer hitch does increase the moment about the front axle, but if your distance from the front axle to the receiver is 155", the difference of 3" at the hitch is is only 12 pounds at the rear axle.  That cannot be the cause of your squat.  Each rear spring is surely 250 lb/inch, or more, the motion ratio (wheel movement/spring movement) of the suspension notwithstanding. 

Go weigh your pod and SUV (all 3 axles separately) and then each axle of your SUV without the Pod.  Then, you can calculate your actual tongue weight.  As long as you keep well over 10% of the Pod's weight on the the tongue, you can reload the Pod to reduce tongue weight.  
John
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 2:54pm
Thanks John.  I need to carefully measure the arc of the tailgate as it opens to see what would work.  I would prefer to replace the electric jack with a short manual.  Easy to use and the Pod is pretty light.  Also, having a couple of German Shorthairs along for every trip adds some weight in the back of the Subbie as well.  Thanks again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 3:32pm
Sadly, you have been sold a trailer that is too heavy for your tow vehicle. This happens all the time.  The listed dry weight of the trailer is highly misleading, as is the tongue weight. So is the tow rating of the TV, its based on the TV being completely empty except for the driver. 

But don't believe anything anyone tells you, including me. 

As  Colt says, go weigh the trailer, the hitch weight, and the combined rig weight and compare those to the Suby's specs.  Load up both the TV and trailer as you actually plan to travel, including passengers, gear and supplies, fuel, water heater full, water (if you plan to dry camp), etc. 

Go through the scales with the trailer attached, adding each of the three axles one at a time, getting all three weights. Then drop the trailer and go through the scale again with the TV only, getting each axle. The trailer weight is the total weight from the first weighing minus the tow vehicle weight. The hitch weight is the combined weight of the two TV axles from the first weighing minus the weight of the tow vehicle from the second weighing. 

All your max load specs should either be on your drivers door sticker, the trailer weight sticker, or in your TV owner's manual. You can use this calculator to put all the data in. 


https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php


Don't exceed any of the specs unless you like the idea of being held personally liable if you have an accident. Beyond that, its up to you but most folks want some safety margin so they're not right at their weight limits. I like at least 10%. 

Re the tongue weight, 10% of trailer weight is the bare minimum. If you really need to go down to 10% to get your tongue weight where it needs to be for the TV, you are asking for trouble in the form of uncontrollable trailer sway.  From looking at cases of reported rPod sway, there are some that occurred at tongue weights right around 10%. I'd recommend 11-12% as a minimum. 

Good luck. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 3:40pm
Maybe this will help-I did move the tank closer to the front of the A Frame and I also use a manual jack. My welder did the work.  He had to remove the tank base, grind the area smooth and then relocate and weld the tank base to the frame.
Another thing you might try-use a manual jack and it is hel in with 3 bolts.  the bolt patterns are the same.  You can rotate the jack so the handle is on the side rather than the front.  a friend did this so his pick up tailgate would clear.
I did this for a different purpose-I wanted to mount the spare on the front and still have room for my Ford Expedition liftgate to open. It clears by 1.5"
Vann


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 3:48pm
Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.  I'll get both weighed and then see what I get.  Once I accurately measure / estimate the tailgate clearance needs, I'll see if a short shaft manual jack will cure the issue.  If not, time to get out the welder and fix it.  

Thanks again - I really appreciate the advice.  

Greg
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 3:59pm
If you have a county waste transfer station you might be able to get weighed for free. I did.  Go at a quiet time and ask nice. Wink..

If you do find you are within your comfort zone relative to the TV specs a weight distribution hitch helps get things back in better balance. Unfortunately its my understanding that Subaru doesn't authorize use of wdh's. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 8:46pm
LOL!  that is exactly what I did.  Cost $5. 

etrailer.com has short, manual jacks.  One was listed at 13" tall.  I believe the bolt pattern is the same, or at least common for a given weight class.  Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply and Northern Tool stock jacks.  I'll bet Rural King does, too. 

With a GVWR of 4774 lbs, your 195 is very close to the 5k limit of your Ascent.  So, you will need to keep your 195 well below it's max weight.  It's doable.  You really need to know actual weights to intelligently load both SUV and RV. 
John
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 7:53am
One problem is that you can't load the TV and tow the max weight trailer at the same time. That's not the way TV's are rated. The max combined gross vehicle weight rating (MCGVWR) would be exceeded, or the TV rear axle rating, or both. Be sure to check those numbers as well as the front axle load, which is going to go in the other direction and get too low to allow for proper control of the rig. 

The second problem is that the manufacturer's max ratings are just that, the maximums, not really something you want to do on a regular basis. It depends on conditions. It might be fine to tow your boat 5 miles to the lake on a nice day a couple times a year, but not when taking a trip into the mountains, or driving through a windstorm, or on a busy freeway with trucks passing you at 75 mph, or on a rural highway where a kid on a bicycle might be just around the next curve. That's where personal judgement comes in, and if you don't have a lot of experience towing it can be hard to judge when you are exceeding safe limits for the conditions. 

I get that its expensive to change tow vehicles, but beware of "cognitive bias", its very easy to ignore information that doesn't support what you want to believe. That's where the internet can be bad, its easy to find someone who will say that what you would like to do is fine. That doesn't make it so. Let the data and good judgement lead where it leads, your family's live and those around you on the roads are at stake. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 7:06pm
Can you just unbolt your jack and rotate it a third turn and re-bolt to clear. 
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