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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tires Again!
    Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 11:12am
A good example is BBQ grills. I've bought several BBQ grills over the years. Several "OK" brands. About 8 or 10 years ago I got a Weber. Wow, what a difference. First, all the high wear parts are stainless steel. Second, it came with a parts list and you can actually buy replacement parts. It may be the last BBQ grill I ever buy. Not exactly the same as tires, but kind of a corollary.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 1:11pm
Rubber compounds in tires are usually proprietary.  Tire rubber is not a fungible.  The chemical engineering that goes into tire rubber can make the difference between a tire that can withstand the heat and flexion a trailer tire experiences or doesn't.  The higher quality the rubber the more reliable the tire.  The same is true with the adhesives and the vulcanization process in building the tire.  A manufacturer can use lower or higher quality adhesives and shortcut the vulcanization process, thus producing a lower quality tire and saving cost of production.  

Though product liability exposure is a deterrent to the production of inferior tires, or other products for that matter, it is no guarantee that crappy tires don't enter the market place.  And, if the tire producer is off shore, it's often not possible to sue them for the consequences of a defective tire.  The retailer is stuck with the responsibility and in some instances does not have adequate insurance or other assets to pay for the consequences of a catastrophic accident.  When you buy your cheap tire at Joe Bob's Tires and Trailer Service, you my find that Joe has limited insurance and is on the edge of bankruptcy.

As for whether manufacturers add to costs to make a better product, that happens all the time.  That's one reason cars cost so much more now than they did 60 years ago.  But the cars of today typically last 5 or 6 times longer.  A car with 50K miles in 1960 was considered beyond the mid-point of its service life while today, a car with 50K miles is considered praticaly new.  Of course, manufacturers try to cut costs all the time, but usually they try to do it without sacrificing quality.  All the marketing in the world didn't save the US auto industry when they turned out crummy cars.  They lost market share to quality vehicles like Toyota, until they raised their standards and costs and started to compete with highly reliable vehicles.

Bottom line, regardless of the country of origin, if you buy cheap trailer tires, you get cheap trailer tires that are not as safe or reliable as others on the market.  Or another way to look at it, when you buy an electric power tool at Harbor Freight you won't get the same quality as buying a Makita, Skil, or Milwaukee despite the fact that they're all made in China.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by lostagain

Rubber compounds in tires are usually proprietary.  Tire rubber is not a fungible.  The chemical engineering that goes into tire rubber can make the difference between a tire that can withstand the heat and flexion a trailer tire experiences or doesn't.  The higher quality the rubber the more reliable the tire.  The same is true with the adhesives and the vulcanization process in building the tire.  A manufacturer can use lower or higher quality adhesives and shortcut the vulcanization process, thus producing a lower quality tire and saving cost of production. 


+1  Recently found that out with snow tires we have purchased with the Michelin Latitude X-Ice label.
Have used these on our vehicles for a number of years for winter use only until a neighbor of mine who drives a 1999 Lexus came up my drive last summer with that very tire on his car.  I asked him, "Did you forget it is summer?  Why are you still driving with those snow tires on in the middle of July?"  His response was that he uses them year round and when he asked me how many miles did I think he had on them I wasn't even close as he claimed he had nearly 50,000 miles on them (they still looked in very good condition) and they were 7 years old.

So I figured that is good enough for me.  No longer wanting to advertise for Goodyear, I got rid of them and had the Michelin Latitude X-Ice installed on my F-150 last October.  I plan on running them year round and will see how many miles they are good for.  The old traditional snow tires I used to purchase would usually get maybe 30,000 miles before replacement.

But another word about Michelin (as I am not advertising for them).  On a 1997 Grand Caravan I used to own many years ago I had a problem of not being able to go up my driveway with as little as 2" of snow, and that vehicle had front wheel drive.  It had Michelins on it and they were nearly new with not even 20,000 miles.  They were an "A" rated performance tire and therein was the problem.  The rubber was so hard, even though the tread looked almost brand new, that the tire would only spin when traveling uphill on a snow covered black top drive.  They were replaced with a different tire by another manufacture and the problem was corrected.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 2:53pm


I bought a new Honda Civic in 1975 for about $3500. The comparable entry level Honda today is the Fit (the Civic is a much larger and more luxurious can now), about $17000. That increase closely matches the general inflation rate. So cars are about the same price in real dollars today as they were 45 years ago. They are a much much better value today though due to remarkable engineering, gear technology, efficiency, and manufacturing improvements.

One power tool or grill or other product can certainly be objectively better or have more desirable features than another. But you can’t tell by looking at a tire what rubber compound is in it.

Bottom line is that unless you have actual data supporting that a more expensive tire is better quality than another less expensive one you are making an assumption based on brand and price alone that one is better than another. I refuse to do that, absent other data I’ll go low cost. That way I have at least one actual data point I’m basing my decision on. And I won’t spend money on a brand out of fear. I’ve taken a couple of postgrad marketing courses so I know how marketers focus on consumer’s fears to extract your money. Fear of making a mistake, fear of missing out, fear for safety. Consumer marketing is all about fear.

So, if you have data on trailer tire performance and reliability then let’s review that, otherwise we simply have different philosophies for how we make purchasing decisions. Let’s leave it at that.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 6:28pm
I don't think the travel trailer tire market is big enough to have any meaningful comparative data or research on performance of any given tire.  So consumers are left pretty much to their own devices.  In addition tire failures are often the result of improper maintenance, abuse, or external damage events, all of which further complicate the situation.  But experience in life has often shown that the cheapest stuff, including tires, is cheaper for a reason, and the reason is often quality.  

It is true that many name brands market to consumers concerns and fears and emphasize that their product is more reliable.  On the other hand unknown companies entering a market, such as tire manufacturing, are not necessarily putting safety and reliably as high as the majors.  They are not experienced in the chemical engineering of rubber and may be more likely to make compounding mistakes.  When radial tires were first introduced to the mass market back in the 70's there was a huge learning curve that all manufacturers had to go through.  The old Firestone 500 was famous for heating up and having tread separations, due to improper rubber compounding, fabric layup, and carcass design.  There were many accidents due to the failures.  For unknown tire companies, who knows?  They may make an absolutely bullet proof trailer tire, but the odds are not in your favor.  

So it all boils down to your tolerance for the risk of a tire failure.  If you are prepared to take the risk to save a few bucks, that is a philosophical choice that one is free to make, provided one is ready to accept responsibility for the consequences.

Regarding Harbor Freight power tools, they look pretty much the same when you take them out of the box, just like a tire.  It isn't until you do destructive testing that you find that they are not in the same league as Skil or Milwaukee.  Of course it's impractical to do destructive testing on tires or power tools, so when you buy them you make a conscious decision, in part because of marketing hype, which will serve your needs better and be more reliable for the time you plan to use it.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 7:08pm
I agree that it is wise to avoid manufacturers that are new entrants. But many inexpensive tire companies have been in business for a long time. Car owners in other countries buy tires too and need them to do their job.

Volume also counts because it accelerates the learning curve. When China first entered the solar market in the early 2000’s there were many problems with their products. Now they dominate the market making well over 50% of the total global supply. The major solar companies in China make excellent products. Probably in reality better than low volume manufacturers in the US or EU in many cases. And the big players who are competing on operational excellence never sit still, they can’t do that and survive. The bar is continuously being raised. This is why it’s next to impossible to regain dominance in a key technology once you’ve lost it.

I buy quite a lot of Harbor Freight stuff. Most of it does it’s job just fine. A few items don’t and I’ll replace them with something eIse and smile all the way to the bank because of all the money I’ve saved not buying the name brand stuff all those other times. It’s also very often possible to look at an electromechanical product and/or its specs and see how well made it is or isn’t.

As for trailer tire risk management as I said I buy tires that are well over rated for the load. My current tires have about a 43% safety factor in their load rating. I check them for proper inflation daily while on the road and check their temps every fuel stop. I think those steps are going to enhance safety and reliability more than just buying name brand tires with a lower load rating and not paying attention to them, and do so more cost effectively.


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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 8:28pm
It's all a matter of personal risk and what is acceptable to you.  If one has a blow out on his trailer because of a defective tire hopefully no one else will be involved.  One may be lucky, but maybe not.  You will never know by looking at the tire.  And the chance you can find out who really made the tire and what their manufacturing experience is is next to nil.  Most of that stuff is subcontracted out by the tire company and one never knows what either their or their subcontractor's quality control and enforcement of specifications are.  And if you ever had to make a claim against them, hopefully the retailer is still in business and is adequately insured.  You won't be going to China to file a product defect suit.  In the last analysis, it's all a matter of what you want to risk.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2021 at 3:57am
The argument regarding risk management would be convincing were it not based on an unfounded premise.

The assumption you are making is that buying Brand A’s trailer tire over Brand C’s trailer tire reduces safety risk. But there has been no data presented to support that assumption. So, I don’t accept it. We simply don’t know whether one is better than another or if their failure rates are statistically the same.

But if rolling on Brand A makes you feel good, that’s fine. Their marketing group has done its job. Personally, I feel better with more money in my bank account😜

This is quite different from some of the other risk topics we have discussed on the forum, such as using a catalytic heater. That has a well documented safety risk (CO poisoning) with a well understood mitigation strategy (proper ventilation). So, anyone can review that information and make an informed decision.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2021 at 8:43am
Etrailer now has Westlake replacements for the original stock HR trailer tires in ST235 75r15 size.  They still have the aggressive off road tread that is also highway acceptable.  They are load D, which increases capacity to 2,910 per.  Up from the original tire at Load C.   I wanted to share.

51 inches of snow in three days here in Idaho.  Skiing yesterday at Sun Valley was amazing!  Wood River Pod isn't going any where until spring break, which means I need to keep it clear so that I can get it out in March.  Snow blower got a workout yesterday.  Today I'll clear the roof.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2021 at 9:55am
OG, by your logic, if there is no data, there is functionally no difference between one product and another.  Though marketing may color the beliefs of people, the reality is that not all manufacturers produce products of equal quality.  That there is so little information on trailer tires is unfortunate and puts everyone at risk in choosing which tire will serve best.  Anecdotal information is pretty much all that is available and it is certainly not the best basis for making a choice, but it's all we have to go on.  If you go to sites such as the National Transportation Safety Commission and try to find information about trailer tires, you'll be disappointed.  There is nothing there.  

As I have said before, buying trailer tires is a calculate risk that one takes with really no functional data.  All you can do to protect yourself and others, is to buy them from a well known manufacturer or a very solvent retailer in the event you have a tire failure that results in a catastrophic accident.  If you want to buy a tire made by an unknown manufacturer from a retailer of doubtful solvency, just keep in mind that if something bad happens you may be SOL.  For some, saving that few bucks of price difference is worth it, for others, they are not willing to take the risk.  The $40 or $50 buck you save may be penny wise and pound foolish or it may be well worth the savings.  It's all just a gamble.  For myself, though I live in Nevada, I don't patronize the casinos.  
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