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P-pod for dry camping? |
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lostagain 
Senior Member 
Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
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 Topic: P-pod for dry camping?Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 3:12pm |
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Both Glue Guy and MarkW are really saying the same thing. There are margins of error/safety and one can choose what risk one wishes to take.
The problem with getting too close to the limit is that many people often over estimate their driving skills and the condition of their rigs, thus leading to an unintended outcome. If these choices were made in a vacuum and only the person choosing to take the risk was affected, it wouldn't be such a problem. But rarely do bad decisions leading to an "accident" affect only the decision taker. S/he often has family that is affected, not to mention unrelated people sharing the road or otherwise obliged to bear the cost. Or, stated more bluntly, don't think just of your self when you engage in risky behavior because you may end up hurting someone else.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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poston
podders Helping podders - pHp
Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Location: Nevada Online Status: Offline Posts: 195 |
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Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 2:27pm |
I think what MarkW is saying is that it's a continuum from definitely no problem to definitely a problem. At 20% of "capacity" most of us feel pretty good. At 120% of capacity, most of us don't feel good. In between, we have various levels of comfort. The capacity number is not a black-and-white threshold, but the higher the percentage of capacity we're using up, the more likely there will be problems - from minor to catastrophic - and less room for error or ability to recover from "accidents." |
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-- Jim Virginia City, Nevada 2016 R-pod 180 2015 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X |
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lostagain
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
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Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 1:51pm |
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It's all a question of tempting Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. They are three fickle ladies and if you want to gamble on their moods by reducing your margin of safety, you may not like where they choose to cut your thread of life.
Thankfully, most civil engineers design bridges with significantly more capacity than they anticipate the bridge will be subjected to.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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GlueGuy
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Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
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Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 11:31am |
I never stated there was a hard line. I'm using a rule of thumb, and everyone has a different line. If your line is at 100% of rated capacity, go for it, and good luck.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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MarkW
Groupie 
Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
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Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 10:23am |
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One is the amount of margin you have. For example, if the vehicle is rated at 3500 lbs, how much of that do you consider safe for a cross-country trip? I would argue that you don't want to go over ~~ 75% of the total "rated" weight
There's no hard line for safety with 'safe' on one side and 'unsafe' on the other. If you truly care about maximum safety going across the country, you shouldn't drive at all, you should fly (commercial aviation is about 750 -- yes 750! -- times safer per passenger mile than driving). And if you are driving, you shouldn't tow a trailer at all (since obviously that reduces safety). You probably also shouldn't be driving a pickup, since they're less safe (more likely to be involved in a fatal rollover accident), and you should probably also not be driving an older vehicle (since newer vehicles have much improved safety -- except for pickups, which still get poor crash ratings). I know of no data, however, that says 75% of the manufacturer tow rating is any kind of safety 'sweet spot' with safety levels falling off quickly from there. |
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MarkW
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Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
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Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 8:20am |
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Yes, you're right Mark, the manufacturers, the government, and the lawyers all have your best interests in mind.
I'm not counting on that -- I'm counting on the manufacturers having their own best interests in mind which very much includes not paying out huge legal settlements for printing obviously false information about the weights and capacities of their products. Europe has very different driving conditions than the US, shorter distances, better roads, more benign weather Meh. I've driven a lot in Europe in multiple countries. The autoroutes are more like U.S. expressways than not (enough that it's pretty easy to forget where you are). It's true that the trucks mostly take secondary roads (which presents its own problems), but they certainly have plenty of steep grades to handle. The most important difference is speed limits -- in most EU countries and the UK, caravan speed limits are lower than in the U.S. (despite non-towing limits being higher). But physics is still physics on both sides of the Atlantic. |
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GlueGuy
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Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:35pm |
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I don't think the issue is with vehicle manufacturers over-stating the vehicle capabilities, although there is a bit of that. Anyone who thinks our F150 can tow the stated 11,700 lbs should look at the real issues (like GVWR). It is probably more in the 9,000-9,500 lb trailer zone if that is adhered to.
There are two things to keep in mind though. One is the amount of margin you have. For example, if the vehicle is rated at 3500 lbs, how much of that do you consider safe for a cross-country trip? I would argue that you don't want to go over ~~ 75% of the total "rated" weight, which would be in the 2600-2700 lb range. The other issue, is that the dry weight of most TTs is NOT the weight you're going to be towing at, especially if you're boondocking. It's probably going to be much closer to the GVWR of the TT than most people are willing to admit. In the case of our RP179, the dry weight is 2860, which is more (to begin with) than I would be comfortable pulling with a vehicle in the "3500 lb tow capacity". Add the fru-fru that most people are probably going to bring along, and you will most likely see yourself exceeding even the 3500 lb rating. |
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 12:20pm |
+2 I'm well aware of the European towing differences. In fact, I have a European horse trailer because it is so much better balanced and easier to tow than the US ones. Europe has very different driving conditions than the US, shorter distances, better roads, more benign weather, no huge trucks blowing past you on the interstate at 80 mph. In any case, it doesn't matter what they do in Europe. All kinds of standards and regs are different there. The US specs and regs are what they are. The towing standards assume an unloaded tow vehicle, obviously you can't put a full payload in the TV and simultaneously tow the max trailer. In reality, we all have load in our TVs, which reinforces the advisability of getting actual weights and checking against axle, hitch, trailer, and the MCGVW ratings. If you're towing an rpod with an F250 then don't bother, but with a 3500 or 5000 lb rated TV it's very easy to be close or over the limits. As for FR's numbers, they do a better job now than on my 2015 (the 179 empty weight has gone up about 130 lbs for the same trailer), but that is still under what mine weighs. What is included in empty weight and what's not changes over time. Trailer manufacturers want to sell trailers so like all manufacturers they take advantage of opportunities to make their specs look better. Lighter looks better. There are all sorts of ways to do that, it's called specsmanship, and it is entirely legal as long as it's properly documented. Caveat Emptor. Not sure what this debate is about at this point. Either go weigh your rig or don't. Tow with what you want. These are entirely your decisions to make. Either way don't expect everyone here to agree with you, it's a forum after all. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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Pod_Geek
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2019 Location: Colorado Online Status: Offline Posts: 260 |
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Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 10:41am |
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2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River
2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
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podwerkz
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Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 966 |
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Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 9:13am |
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Yes, you're right Mark, the manufacturers, the government, and the lawyers all have your best interests in mind. Carry on.
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r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
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