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P-pod for dry camping?

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MarkW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: P-pod for dry camping?
    Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 4:20pm
Dude your going both ways here.. You're either with factory spec's or your not. 

I'm really not.  If I were having trouble with the current van as a TV (even though it was within specs), my solution wouldn't be to trade in the van on a crossover that was about the same size, weight, and power of the van but had a 5000# rating (and then -- hey why not? -- load another 800# into the trailer because now there's a safety margin).  Instead the focus will be on getting the trailer dialed in on the balance.  During our first long trip, with the anti-sway cranked down, it was quite OK, not scary (despite, 25mph winds, steep grades in the Appalachians, and lots of trucks through multi-lane urban zones).  But I'd like it to feel more solid with the anti-sway loosened up.  And it shouldn't be a problem getting a couple of hundred lbs more of tongue weight by loading some more stuff in the pass-thru or on/under the 'v-berth in the bow' just as I've done at times with the sailboat).  We've got a ton of space in the CVWR.  The CVWR is is 8900# as compared to a total of about 7400# of the combined dry weight.  So we have flexibility to carry the gear in the TV.  Which is what we did on our initial trip.  Bikes, inflatable kayak, cooler, luggage all were in the TV.  We loaded next to nothing into the trailer that wasn't there when we signed the deal and handed over the check (and we unloaded the water).  

Bottom line for me (as I've said) -- stay within specs, balance the trailer.  Consider upgrading the TV only if you can't balance within specs (or if your TV is overheating or a complete snail on long grades).  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:14am
Of course you have to get sufficient weight on the tounge of your trailer. After a rpod sway survey, I recommend a minimum of 11% if actual trailer weight for that.

Toyota limits it's hitch weights to 10% of trailer weight so no you can't add 200 lbs to the tongue. Some vehicles alliw an increase if you use a wdh, check the towing section of your manual.

Staying under that limitation is very important in any vehicle but especially in a unibody vehicle. Unless of course you like very expensive frame repairs. You don't know what receiver loads the frame is actually engineered for, Toyota won't provide you with proprietary data like that. I know my Highlander is good for 500 lbs, so I limit myself to that. That turns out to be the critical limiting spec for my use case.

As for staying within specs, I think we all agree with that here, as a minimum. Some want to see more safety factor than that, that's fine too.

But myself and others here are not going to be convinced by hand waving debate. You would need to go to the scales fully loaded and actually weigh your axles, trailer, tongue, and combined rig.

Of course, you don't need to convince us of anything, the only person who can require you to weigh is your friendly highway patrol officer. Just don't expect us to agree with you on that decision.





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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:56am
"Toyota limits it's hitch weights to 10% of trailer weight"

Well, maybe it did back in 2012, but here's what the manual says for our 2018:

To ensure the recommended values shown below, the trailer must be loaded by referring to the following instructions. • Tongue Weight The gross trailer weight should be distributed so that the tongue weight is 9% to 11%. (Tongue weight / Gross trailer weight  100 = 9% to 11%)

If it turns out that 11% is what I need for best stability, it will be no problem at all doing, say 3100# in the trailer and 340# on the tongue.

Interestingly, the manual also includes this:

● If the gross trailer weight is over 2000 lbs. (907 kg), a sway control device with sufficient capacity is required.

Which I hadn't noted before (but which we already do have)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 7:22am
Nope, mine says the same.

You are not understanding my point. I am talking about max hitch weight, which is 350 lbs on you vehicle, correct?

You stated that you wanted to increase your tongue weight by about 200 lbs above it's current value of around 280 IIRC. That you can't do. I can.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 11:09am
You stated that you wanted to increase your tongue weight by about 200 lbs above it's current value of around 280 IIRC. That you can't do. I can.

If I did, I misspoke.  When I measured tongue weight with the new scale after we got home, it came in around 290#.  Part of the reason is that a week of running the furnace overnight almost emptied one of the two propane tanks.  A refill of that should get it to ~305 and then a little more weight in the 'bow' will take it up to however close to 350 (330-5 is about 11% -- not that 11% is necessarily the magic number).  One full suitcase on the bed up against the front wall would probably do it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Olddawgsrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by MarkW

Dude your going both ways here.. You're either with factory spec's or your not. 

I'm really not.  If I were having trouble with the current van as a TV (even though it was within specs), my solution wouldn't be to trade in the van on a crossover that was about the same size, weight, and power of the van but had a 5000# rating (and then -- hey why not? -- load another 800# into the trailer because now there's a safety margin).  Instead the focus will be on getting the trailer dialed in on the balance.  During our first long trip, with the anti-sway cranked down, it was quite OK, not scary (despite, 25mph winds, steep grades in the Appalachians, and lots of trucks through multi-lane urban zones).  But I'd like it to feel more solid with the anti-sway loosened up.  And it shouldn't be a problem getting a couple of hundred lbs more of tongue weight by loading some more stuff in the pass-thru or on/under the 'v-berth in the bow' just as I've done at times with the sailboat).  We've got a ton of space in the CVWR.  The CVWR is is 8900# as compared to a total of about 7400# of the combined dry weight.  So we have flexibility to carry the gear in the TV.  Which is what we did on our initial trip.  Bikes, inflatable kayak, cooler, luggage all were in the TV.  We loaded next to nothing into the trailer that wasn't there when we signed the deal and handed over the check (and we unloaded the water).  

Bottom line for me (as I've said) -- stay within specs, balance the trailer.  Consider upgrading the TV only if you can't balance within specs (or if your TV is overheating or a complete snail on long grades).  

Load 'another' 800lbs?? Even as a joke that statement says something of how you are looking at this.. Remember the axle capacity... Hell think frame capacity.. skip the axle.. Now I'm very curious what kind of trailer weight you're towing? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 2:41pm
Load 'another' 800lbs?? Even as a joke that statement says something of how you are looking at this.. Remember the axle capacity... Hell think frame capacity.. skip the axle.. Now I'm very curious what kind of trailer weight you're towing? 

Oy.  That was a comment about the possibility of upgrading from the van (with a 3500# tow rating) to a unibody crossover (with a 5000# rating).  The point was that if I upgraded, I still definitely *wouldn't* add all that extra weight (even though it would be be within the max trailer rating of 3950#) and the tow rating of the hypothetical new TV (5000#).  As it is, I plan to be towing a (nearly empty) trailer at 3000-3100# with at tongue weight of around 325-330# (depending on how it feels, not sure we'll have to turn it all the way up to 11 percent).  

But, as an aside, because the van is designed to handle 7-8 passengers, the GVWR is a high 5995# (or 1500# more than the curb weight) and the CVWR is 8900# (or, again, about 1500# greater than the combined dry weights of the TV and trailer).  Meaning it's easy -- with only two passengers -- to carry all the gear we need in the TV and not in the trailer.  Lastly the axle ratings are 3100# each, which again is not close to problematic for the rear axle (given that there's no part of the power train in the rear and we're not going to load any people or luggage way in the back).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 8:17am
Well, now that we're getting some actual spec numbers all we need is the real world weights to compare them to....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote podwerkz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 9:42am
FWD vehicles are not really designed to be tow vehicles. Sooner or later, this will become obvious. 




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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 12:27pm
FWD vehicles are not really designed to be tow vehicles. Sooner or later, this will become obvious. 

We bought our 26' sailboat (unknown exact weight but likely pushing 3000# fully loadeded) in 1997 and towed it with FWD minivans ever since (a '97 Chrysler, followed by an '04 Toyota for 14 years, and now our '18 Toyota).  We dumped the '04 '18 because the various deferred repairs finally exceeded what the van was worth BUT the engine and transmission had no issues at all (nor did the Chrysler for that matter).  For many years, we went for a week to sail in the North Channel / Georgian Bay of Lake Huron, which meant an 8-hour drive each way to Northern Ontario:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Nedwp2PjWGes88f7

So I'm really not worried about durability when towing with the van (although perhaps it will please you to know that there were also folks on the trailerable sailboat forums who were just as skeptical).  But maybe we've just gotten lucky for almost 25 years.


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