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P-pod for dry camping?

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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: P-pod for dry camping?
    Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 11:31am
Originally posted by MarkW

One is the amount of margin you have. For example, if the vehicle is rated at 3500 lbs, how much of that do you consider safe for a cross-country trip? I would argue that you don't want to go over ~~ 75% of the total "rated" weight

There's no hard line for safety with 'safe' on one side and 'unsafe' on the other.  If you truly care about maximum safety going across the country, you shouldn't drive at all, you should fly (commercial aviation is about 750 -- yes 750! -- times safer per passenger mile than driving).  And if you are driving, you shouldn't tow a trailer at all (since obviously that reduces safety).  You probably also shouldn't be driving a pickup, since they're less safe (more likely to be involved in a fatal rollover accident), and you should probably also not be driving an older vehicle (since newer vehicles have much improved safety -- except for pickups, which still get poor crash ratings).  I know of no data, however, that says 75% of the manufacturer tow rating is any kind of safety 'sweet spot' with safety levels falling off quickly from there.

I never stated there was a hard line. I'm using a rule of thumb, and everyone has a different line. If your line is at 100% of rated capacity, go for it, and good luck.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 1:51pm
It's all a question of tempting Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos.  They are three fickle ladies and if you want to gamble on their moods by reducing your margin of safety, you may not like where they choose to cut your thread of life.  

Thankfully, most civil engineers design bridges with significantly more capacity than they anticipate the bridge will be subjected to.

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poston View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote poston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

I never stated there was a hard line. I'm using a rule of thumb, and everyone has a different line. 

I think what MarkW is saying is that it's a continuum from definitely no problem to definitely a problem.
At 20% of "capacity" most of us feel pretty good.  At 120% of capacity, most of us don't feel good.  In between, we have various levels of comfort.  

The capacity number is not a black-and-white threshold, but the higher the percentage of capacity we're using up, the more likely there will be problems - from minor to catastrophic - and less room for error or ability to recover from "accidents."


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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 3:12pm
Both Glue Guy and MarkW are really saying the same thing.  There are margins of error/safety and one can choose what risk one wishes to take.  

The problem with getting too close to the limit is that many people often over estimate their driving skills and the condition of their rigs, thus leading to an unintended outcome.  If these choices were made in a vacuum and only the person choosing to take the risk was affected, it wouldn't be such a problem.  But rarely do bad decisions leading to an "accident" affect only the decision taker.  S/he often has family that is affected, not to mention unrelated people sharing the road or otherwise obliged to bear the cost.  Or, stated more bluntly, don't think just of your self when you engage in risky behavior because you may end up hurting someone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pedwards2932 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 3:47pm
What I find odd is on the Forrest River forum the answer is always you need a F250 anything less just won't do and this is the response given to folks looking at a 3000 lb TT.  I guess I would have a hard time explaining why I need a $50000 truck to pull a 3300 lb TT to my wife.  I am marginal but within specs with my tow vehicle but it works for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by pedwards2932

What I find odd is on the Forest River forum the answer is always you need a F250 anything less just won't do and this is the response given to folks looking at a 3000 lb TT.  I guess I would have a hard time explaining why I need a $50000 truck to pull a 3300 lb TT to my wife.  I am marginal but within specs with my tow vehicle but it works for me.

I frequent that forum and I don't think that for the most part those folks are quite as pedantic as you suggest (plenty of times they say a 1/2 ton is fine for a relatively short, light trailer).  They do respond bluntly, however, when folks say that they're going to tow their 45-foot 5th wheel with a Tacoma.

Kind of like here...
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 4:40pm
At least they're not saying that this is the minimum requirement:
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pedwards2932 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pedwards2932 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 5:39pm
Sorry it was the IRV2 forum:
'Buy a F250 at the minimum ( Dodge or Chevy 2500 ) and then go get a trailer. DO NOT put your family or anyone elses at risk with too little tow vehicle. Look through this forum and you will find the same question over and over about a tow vehicle. Always the same answer."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 7:18am
What I find odd is on the Forrest River forum the answer is always you need a F250 anything less just won't do and this is the response given to folks looking at a 3000 lb TT.  I guess I would have a hard time explaining why I need a $50000 truck to pull a 3300 lb TT to my wife.  

It's not even clear that a big truck helps with the issue that seems to cause most of the accidents -- namely, out of control trailer sway.  In fact, it looks like it may be the case that with a pickup, there is a greater likelihood that the TV will roll over along with the trailer in a crash (as in these dashcam videos):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJtmOPdWrlE

It seems to me that the critical thing is to get a good balance/sway control with the trailer regardless of the TV.  Look at the crash at 2:50 in the video -- having a relatively light trailer relative to the TV isn't a guarantee.  In that case it's an empty flatbed trailer that goes out of control and ultimately rolls the TV.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 7:53am
Umm. 100% of your tow vehicle's load ratings is indeed a hard and fast rule. Above that is unlawful operation of a motor vehicle on a highway, which is a crime. So don't do it, and it's is a violation of forum rules to support it.

As for physics being the same in Europe, sure of course. But physics is the pursuit of understanding of how the universe works. What we are dealing with here is engineering, making something practical that people can actually use. That means not only conforming to physical laws but also to the regulations, environment, history, and cultural expectations in the place the thing you are engineering will be operated.

My degree is in physics but I have engineered and built power systems on 6 continents and used all sorts of vehicles to reach those construction sites. So meh^2. I didn't get to search all over the planet for the regs that suited me and call it good, and neither can you. I had to conform to the rules of the jurisdiction I was working in, like it or not.

To paraphrase Shakespeare, methinks at this point that he doth protest too much. Instead of continuing this data free debate, let's hear the actual load numbers. I'm still waiting for someone here who is towing a mid sized rpod with a 3500 lb vehicle to present real world fully loaded axle, trailer, hitch, and MCGV weights for their rig, comparing them to their limiting specs. It hasn't happened yet, which leads me to suspect that these operators don't really want to know and instead want to present hand waving arguments as a form of confirmation bias supporting what they've decided to do anyway.If you are within limits I don't have an issue, it's a personal choice based on your risk tolerance, feel free to justify that any way you want to.


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