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Topic ClosedJust bought a 2018 179 - towing issue

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
    Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 9:11am
olddawgsrule, it’s not too early to load the gear your want to bring, make a short trip to the local scales, and weigh. It’s pointless to weigh the trailer and tow vehicle empty, that tells you nothing.

As for needing a wdh, no one “needs” one in the sense that you should be legal without it. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a very good thing to have one. The OP raised his question because he is already concerned about how his tow vehicle is handling the trailer. And he should be, look at the photo, his front axle is waay too light. A wdh is the only device that can correct that.

What folks don’t realize is that hanging a trailer on the hitch changes the TV front/rear load distribution by much more than the tongue weight of the trailer. A 500 lb tongue weight might for example reduce the front axle load by 250 lbs and increase the rear axle load by 750 lbs, resulting in a 1000 lb difference between the two axles. The actual numbers will vary based on wheelbase and distance from the ball to the rear TV axle, but you will always end up lighter on the front axle and adding more than the tongue weight to the rear axle, without a wdh.

A wdh will change the geometry and weights of the rig. So by installing it before weighing, the OP only needs to do it and run the calculator once.

You can and should adjust where you carry your loads, TV load as far forward as possible, always. Trailer load is not so simple because you have to strike a balance between excessive tongue weight from too much load forward and sway risk from too much load aft. Safest in a smaller TV going to be adjust the load so you’re close to the TV max tongue weight, and use a wdh to move some of that tongue load to the front axle. For a heavier TV I’d put 14-15% of trailer weight on the tongue, then decide based on ride and handling whether to add a wdh.

If the OP wants to load and weigh without a wdh first that’s fine, but based on his concerns and what I see in the photo I think a wdh and a second weighing is in his future.



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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 10:51am
Ford recommends a WDH on our F150 if the tongue weight is > 500 lbs.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 12:45pm
From a lay person's perspective, if the loaded TV and trailer don't sit evenly in a straight line back to front, such as is depicted in H-B's foto where the front is noticeably lifted, you probably need a WDH.  It may be possible to get along without it, but what you gain in ease of driving will make it worth it.  You gain better control, better wind stability, and better sway resistance all wrapped in one device.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by offgrid

olddawgsrule, it’s not too early to load the gear your want to bring, make a short trip to the local scales, and weigh. It’s pointless to weigh the trailer and tow vehicle empty, that tells you nothing.

As for needing a wdh, no one “needs” one in the sense that you should be legal without it. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a very good thing to have one. The OP raised his question because he is already concerned about how his tow vehicle is handling the trailer. And he should be, look at the photo, his front axle is waay too light. A wdh is the only device that can correct that.

What folks don’t realize is that hanging a trailer on the hitch changes the TV front/rear load distribution by much more than the tongue weight of the trailer. A 500 lb tongue weight might for example reduce the front axle load by 250 lbs and increase the rear axle load by 750 lbs, resulting in a 1000 lb difference between the two axles. The actual numbers will vary based on wheelbase and distance from the ball to the rear TV axle, but you will always end up lighter on the front axle and adding more than the tongue weight to the rear axle, without a wdh.

A wdh will change the geometry and weights of the rig. So by installing it before weighing, the OP only needs to do it and run the calculator once.

You can and should adjust where you carry your loads, TV load as far forward as possible, always. Trailer load is not so simple because you have to strike a balance between excessive tongue weight from too much load forward and sway risk from too much load aft. Safest in a smaller TV going to be adjust the load so you’re close to the TV max tongue weight, and use a wdh to move some of that tongue load to the front axle. For a heavier TV I’d put 14-15% of trailer weight on the tongue, then decide based on ride and handling whether to add a wdh.

If the OP wants to load and weigh without a wdh first that’s fine, but based on his concerns and what I see in the photo I think a wdh and a second weighing is in his future.


Still believe you have the cart in front of the horse. Start at the beginning and determine the issue. Buying a WDH at this point is not a solution.. Haven't found the issue yet!

My mistake was listening to reasoning like this and not resolving the true issue first. I bought a WDH that was required. 

I only peruse this as I wish the OP to learn what the main issue is first. Then If indeed it can not be overcome, then go to another remedy. Learning how to balance a trailer if 'key'. Not buying a WDH and throwing that on.. 

OP. Sorry you have to read through all this. I hope is that you go step by step before jumping into another purchased remedy. Learn your trailer and balance it. Learn your truck and balance it. You may find as I did, these WDH's are for others. That TACO is a great match for this this trailer! 

Safe travels all!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Ford recommends a WDH on our F150 if the tongue weight is > 500 lbs.


Ford's ratings, as I understand them, state you only gain 120lbs in tongue weight with WDH. Heck, that's almost the weight of the hitch! No gain seen. The original issue remains. 

You are unbalanced. 

Your F150 (like mine) has higher capability than the Tacoma we are discussing (wifies rig). The weight placed on the tongue 'does not move'. It remains on the tongue. 

For Ford to recommend that bothers me. Just another reason I'm looking for a pre "85 Ford.. F250 or better. Okay, decent shape under $6K....


 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by lostagain

From a lay person's perspective, if the loaded TV and trailer don't sit evenly in a straight line back to front, such as is depicted in H-B's foto where the front is noticeably lifted, you probably need a WDH.  It may be possible to get along without it, but what you gain in ease of driving will make it worth it.  You gain better control, better wind stability, and better sway resistance all wrapped in one device.

Buying a system because you don't wish to figure out how to load? Okay for you I guess? Is this what we wish to teach or pass along?? Should we not at least show how to find and cure the main cause?

Hey, I get you guys bought into this, as did I! I learned and only wish that others don't spend the dollar before understanding the real issue and how to over-come.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:57pm
Good God... How did they ever manage before this WDH was marketed... 

Oh ya, balancing the load and buying the right tow vehicle. Life was so much simpler then...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 5:41pm
olddogsrule, I can assure you that I need a wdh. I am at 11% on the tongue when my gray tank is full and my fwt empty. That is as low as I'm willing to go. When my fwt is full and gray tank empty I'm at 500 lbs. Without the wdh my rig looks like the op's and my front to rear TV axle imbalance is about 1000 lbs. I would not tow with my rig without the wdh.

The point us that you can't fully control how you load, water at least will start forward and move aft over time. There are other loads that are also hard to relocate, and good reasons, like sway risk, not to.

Although a wdh when set properly will not get the TV back to where it was without the trailer it will put the front axle back where it was and place some tongue load on the trailer axle, so the rear TV axle squat will be reduced dramatically.

Let me ask the question from the other direction, what is bad about having a wdh to improve load balance on a rig with a relatively light TV?You get additional ride improvement and loading flexibility. What's not to like?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:22pm
Need more weight on the steer axle? 

Just add a front receiver hitch and hitch rack and load up a big honkin' genset and a few cinder blocks....

Wink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:29pm
Old, you seem to have a dog in this race.  Personally, I don't care whether one buys a WDH or not.  

All I am saying is that the picture shows a midsize pickup truck with too much weight aft.  Weight needs to be moved forward.  A WDH can take care of that.  You could add weight to the rear of the trailer to lighten the relative tongue weight, but that may be at the expense of increasing the potential for sway, an unpleasant condition.  

WDH's are not that expensive in the grand scheme of things.  For a little more than $300 you can solve the balance and weight transfer problem, have a lot more directional stability, sway protection, and comfort in cross-winds and other challenging driving conditions, especially on long trips.  

When I look at our F-150 it is clear to me that this supposedly full sized pickup is more balanced with a WHD and it sure drives a lot nicer.  Certainly, I could do with out it, but I'm not into white knuckle driving.  Why bother?  When I connect up the WDH, everything looks more balanced, and the weighing of the trailer at the CAT scale proved that to be the case with more than 150 lbs. transferred to the front wheels.  

It's clear that you are no fan of WDH's and that is your prerogative.  But others, by sharing their preferences are not trying to unduly influence the OP's request for information.  They're simply sharing their experiences.  
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