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Topic ClosedJust bought a 2018 179 - towing issue

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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
    Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Need more weight on the steer axle? 

Just add a front receiver hitch and hitch rack and load up a big honkin' genset and a few cinder blocks....

Wink

Oh yeah. Another solution. Put a receiver on the front and PUSH the trailer!

LOL
bp
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:34pm
Heck, you could have two r-Pods, one in front, the other in back.  It'd be just like pushing jets around on tarmac at the airport.  Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 12:07pm
Push the R-pod!

Now THERE is a novel solution!

Problem solved!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 7:57am
Originally posted by lostagain

Old, you seem to have a dog in this race.  Personally, I don't care whether one buys a WDH or not.  

All I am saying is that the picture shows a midsize pickup truck with too much weight aft.  Weight needs to be moved forward.  A WDH can take care of that.  You could add weight to the rear of the trailer to lighten the relative tongue weight, but that may be at the expense of increasing the potential for sway, an unpleasant condition.  

WDH's are not that expensive in the grand scheme of things.  For a little more than $300 you can solve the balance and weight transfer problem, have a lot more directional stability, sway protection, and comfort in cross-winds and other challenging driving conditions, especially on long trips.  

When I look at our F-150 it is clear to me that this supposedly full sized pickup is more balanced with a WHD and it sure drives a lot nicer.  Certainly, I could do with out it, but I'm not into white knuckle driving.  Why bother?  When I connect up the WDH, everything looks more balanced, and the weighing of the trailer at the CAT scale proved that to be the case with more than 150 lbs. transferred to the front wheels.  

It's clear that you are no fan of WDH's and that is your prerogative.  But others, by sharing their preferences are not trying to unduly influence the OP's request for information.  They're simply sharing their experiences.  

My point is not to just do the simple, buy something, yet learn what the issue/problem actually is and attempt to cure that. I own the same basic truck he does and balancing cured the issue. You seem to have missed that..

I've towed the 182g with my F150 without a WDH. Truck was level and could hardly tell it was back there until I hit a steep grade (4.6l) and she'd downshift. 

Fan or not of WDH, using one is not the first step. Learning the cause of the issue and curing it to the best you can first is always the best direction. 

I 'know' first hand that I don't require WDH to level my TV's (Taco or F150) and had 12% tongue weight (420). I used sway only to control in windy conditions. Now that Wouldn't leave home without.

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lostagain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 8:47am
No, Old, I didn't miss your "point."  As I said as clearly as I could, "I don't care whether one buys a WDH or not."  If you are happy with shifting things around to achieve a balanced load, then good for you.  If you like what you have and it is safe, then keep doing what you prefer.

As to whether it is more simple than using a WDH, that is not necessarily the case.  The extra couple of minutes I spend hooking up our e2 is far more simple than futzing around with moving stuff fore and aft to achieve a balanced load.  To each his own. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 11:14am
My point is different. I’m not interested in leveling my tow vehicle, it doesn’t end up level. I’m interested in counteracting the teeter totter and getting the weight on the front axle back where it was without the trailer. That is how it is designed to operate and will handle the best. The only practical way to do that is by using a Wdh. You can move stuff around in the trailer all day and it wouldn’t accomplish that, not and still have at least 11% (400 lbs in my case) on the tongue. I guess I could hang some lead in the front bumper instead or gain a couple hundred pounds but I think I’ll pass on those options . As LA says, it’s not a big deal for me to connect and tension it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:09pm
Good point, OG.  

A properly balanced load means that there is adequate weight on the front wheels in order to be safe.  If the shifting of stuff around only occurs in the trailer, then your reference to a teeter totter would be exactly the problem; just a question of on which side the fat kid is going to sit.  Unless the shifting around of stuff adds weight to the TV's front wheels by adding weight at the most forward end of the bed, how would it ensure adequate weight transfer to the front wheels?  Maybe really heavy passengers in the front seat of the truck?  

It'd be interesting to see the results of weighing the whole rig, not just the tongue weight.  How much weight is on the front wheels, the rear, the trailer?  What would the results of the weight distribution calculator show?  Again, the bottom line is a safely balanced rig.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:22pm
Someone someday is going to have to explain in detail what this giant resistance to using a WDH is all about. It solves several real problems, and you move on.
bp
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Someone someday is going to have to explain in detail what this giant resistance to using a WDH is all about. It solves several real problems, and you move on.


In my case it isn't a 'resistance' to using one but rather for the following: the dealership told me it wasn't necessary for my setup (177 at 2415 lbs being towed by an Explorer) and since I have never used one and feel comfortable driving with a simple Curt friction bar ($40) over the past 10 years and 34,000 + miles without incident over many various road and wind conditions, I don't like to fix it if in my mind, it doesn't need fixing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 5:40pm
There is some fundamental physics going on here you just can't getlko around.

Say your trailer weighs 3500 lbs. You need your tongue weight to be 11 percent of that to be stable enough to avoid sway. That's 385 lbs. When you hang that 385 lbs on the hitch the TV is a teeter totter with the fulcrum being the rear axle. So there is a moment (torque) created. If the ball is 5 ft from the rear axle that moment is 385 x 5 = 1925 ft-lbs.   If the wheel base is 10 feet then to counteract that 1925 ft-lbs you need 1925/10= 192.5 lbs, so the front axle is going to have almost 200 lbs less weight on it in order to balance the teeter.

There's no way around that. Unless you use a weight distribution hitch with which puts a countering moment (torque) on the tow vehicle and pushes the front axle back down. That's in a nutshell is what a weight distribution hitch does.

If your wheelbase is long enough and your vehicle is heavy enough then it odoesn't matter and you don't need a weight distribution hitch. But if you have a lighter tow vehicle with a shortish wheelbase it really helps put some load back on the front axle which is after all what steers the vehicle and has the best brakes.

So if you have an F250 don't worry about it. If you're an F150 driver it's probably personal choice but if you have a Highlander or a Taco or some other lighter tow vehicle, especially one with a short wheelbase it really helps.
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