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Outriggers and over torsioned axle

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Austintaco View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Austintaco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Outriggers and over torsioned axle
    Posted: 11 Aug 2023 at 5:39pm
Bowcat,
I’m new to the scene and not as well versed as others, but I have read on here and the FB group that if it’s sagging too much, you will need to jack it up, let it sit and adjust, and then try some more. Where are you located in Texas? I would be curious to see what the sag looks like and what to look out for.
2003 Toyota Tacoma
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Bowcat66 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bowcat66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2023 at 6:29pm
I am located in Pampa, Texas. Put a square against the frame and the floor under your slide, it should be a 90 degree angle. Mine is approx. 3/16" - 1/4" off. This is durle to the weight of the slide out when extended. The outriggers should help.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2023 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Bowcat66

I have a 2016 180 that has zero outriggers installed. I do show a small amount of sagging, but even when I jack it up, it doesn't square it up. I have the outriggers ready to install, but am now confused because it doesn't square up. Have any of you had this issue? And did you go ahead an install the outriggers?
Once the floor frame is bent, it will take some doing to get it to square up. I saw that it has already been suggested to jack it up, let it sit, then jack some more. Hopefully, that will work for you.
StephenH
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wvanauken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 9:15am
I have a problem too with floor sag directly underneath the slide out on my 2019 R-pod 180. I contacted Forest River about obtaining the supports, but instead got a lot push back. They feel that the supports just fixes a symptom and not the problem. They wanted me to take pictures showing the over hang sag with a combination square which I felt was reasonable. They sent me a questionnaire titled "Over Torsion Axle" where they also wanted a pictures of the axle tag on the Lippert axle, pictures of my towing set up, hitch set up, hitch, weight distribution hitch with the brand, tongue and weight capacities and tow vehicle type. They also wanted pictures of the unit showing the clearance between the fender and tires. Apparently they feel that this body sag is related to the axle and weight distribution hitch. I told her specifically that the floor sag was only evident directly under the slide out. That there is no sag in any other location. I told her that I felt sure that the issue was because of the lack of out rigger body supports at the frame. I measured the distance from each side of the frame at the axle to the ground which was exactly the same. I used a string to check for any bend in the axle housing - none. I checked the distance between the fenders and the tires which was almost the same. There was some difference in the clearance measurement only because I discovered that one fender was mounted higher on the body than the other one! I asked if I could just purchase the outrigger supports from her direct and she refused. She also wanted pictures of the inside floor sag with a level. I told her that there was no evidence of interior sag or separation between the floor and wall and hopefully will avoid any future separation if I can get these outrigger supports now so that I can install them immediately. She actually said no that I still needed to get pictures interior floor with a level. I'm at wits end with Forest River. I had many issues with this unit when I first got the unit new (that's a whole different story). I told her that if I can't get the outrigger supports from her, that I would go to a local fabricator and have them made.
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Tomtreas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tomtreas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 6:58pm
wvanauken, From what I understand, the sagging floor under the slider issue is a problem that started with the 2017 manufacturing line and I'm not exactly sure how long the window goes forward but the best thing that you can do is gather the information that Hope ask you for and send it to her so she can make sure that it falls within the program window. She told me herself that the axle manufacturer was paying for recalls and paying to fix the damage caused by an over tensioned axle.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wvanauken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 7:23pm
Thanks for your suggestion Tomtreas. I will give that some thought. After my bad experience with Forest River when I first bought this unit, I'm not sure that I want to give it up to them for who knows how long. On the other hand, if the over torsioned axle is one of the main cause for the floor sag, I guess I can understand that sort of. But what gets me is the sag is only under the slide out, no where else. Uhh...are they really saying that it is because the trailer bounces down the road and/or not sprung correctly which is leading to the issue of floor sag out board of the frame. Mmmmm? My trailer handles great when towing and I've not observed any issues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tomtreas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 7:27pm
That was what was determined by the axle manufacturer yes and why they are paying to fix the damages to over 20,000 units. This is not on Forest River but they are doing the work and being compensated by the Axle manufacturer. I speculate that what is happening is is with the extra torque on that axle it causes the bouncing to cause too much tension to the floor and starts to break it down. I'm just guessing here though. Be thankful you aren't me in the damage is caused by something else and I have to pay for my floor replacement out of my own pocket.
Tom B in MO USA
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2023 at 9:47am
The axle problem and the floor sag problem are two different problems unrelated to each other, but with the same underlying cause. It's the fact that the frame is inboard from the outer walls by about 6" (that's the floor sag issue), and that the wheels are roughly a foot outboard of the frame (that's the axle issue).

If the frame had been made wider by about a foot, there would be no floor sag, and it would reduce and mostly eliminate the axle issue. 

The problem for Forrest River is that making the frame wider would make the trailer much heavier, and would also create support issues in the center/floor area, which would require additional cross members, and make it heavier still.

Both issues can be mitigated at an additional cost, and probably with some additional weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wvanauken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2023 at 12:06pm
Thank you for your comments and I agree 100%. Since I have gotten Forest River's attention and they are requesting more info and pics from me, I'm going to start the process with them and see where it goes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Austintaco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2023 at 1:05pm
IMO, as a new owner of a 2016 179, it’s a combination of bad build quality, bad axle, bad frame design, and use. The fact that outriggers are being used on newer models indicates that they do help compensate for the bad design. I think FR was able to push off some of the warranty work on Lippert because they switched axles, but I think the torsion axles even outside of the ones specified are crap. The use of WDH might contribute, but that should have been factored in. Knowing all that, I’m doing everything I can to beef up the areas and avoid the problems. 
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