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David and Danette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nitrogen Dioxide
    Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 5:51am
  Reading an article about perhaps future changes made for the safety of cooking with gas. What was mentioned in future homes may be built for electric stoves only or having a good ventilation system for a gas stove. I thought about gas stoves in campers when they are being used they need to be well ventilated when in use. We cook a lot inside of our camper using the gas stove and oven after reading this article about the safety of good ventilation, we will make sure from now on to use the vent fan. Perhaps there will be for future campers requirements for ventilation and warning signs. With the roof vent fans and a window open I think for a small camper that would be enough ventilation. In the article mentioned cooking with gas has only been in use the past 100 years and fifty years ago it was realized that there were dangers in breathing the harmful fumes of natural gas being burned. They are finding enough evidence that changes need to be made for the future use of gas stoves either discontinuing them or strict requirements for proper ventilation.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 6:30am
+1 one Dave and Danette's comment.  Given that most campers are pretty airtight and the fact that any form of unvented combustion uses up the oxygen and leaves the combustion gasses behind calls for some form of ventilation. Most unvented gas heaters have an oxygen sensor set to turn the gas off if the oxygen level in the space being heated gets too low.  Stoves don't have this feature so one has little warning that the oxygen level has gone too low and that combustion gasses are accumulating.  It would be best to always crack open the roof vent and a window if you turn on the stove.  Since making heat adequate for cooking requires quite a bit of energy, it is going to be pretty challenging to come up with alternatives to the LP gas stove in campers, but there are some very smart people out there who may figure out something in the not too distant future.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 7:35am
Many higher end RVs with large solar and battery systems are configured all electric now. They use induction cooktops which are quite efficient. Not expensive either, 2 burner ones are around 100-200$ and use around 2kw. So if you ran both of them for a hour a day  which would be a quite a lot of cooking, you'd use around 2kwh. That would require around 500 watts of solar to run on an average day. Quite doable nowadays depending on what else you want to run at the same time.

For me, I need my 1500 watts of solar for air conditioning in summer so I'm going to stick with my propane stove and turn on the range hood. 

Also the propane  stove I have works and I learned long ago that life goes much more smoothly for me when I stick to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 7:37am
It may be that we need to use more efficient cookware. This one uses fins on the bottom of the pot to increase heat transfer, getting more out of the burning fuel.


The title of the post is a bit off. The concern for burning gas indoors is Carbon Monoxide (CO) because it is odorless, colorless, and binds with hemoglobin which means that it can't carry oxygen to your cells. Nitrogen oxides (N2O) may be generated, but they are not the big concern that CO is.


Induction cooktops are another alternative. They is good for when one has shore power or a generator, but like any electric appliance, would require a pretty hefty solar system to run when boondocking without a generator. They are, however, very good to use as they are more efficient and don't have the combustion by-products. We carry one with us and use it. We bought a set of Magma nesting cookware to use with it.


Nesting means it takes less space. It is expensive, but it is high-end, quality cookware that will last.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 7:38am
As long as there is ventilation when cooking the "potential" issue is addressed.  Personally i dislike having the government dictate what we can and cannot do as our Founding Fathers intended that we make our own personal choices.  The latest fiasco was shown by the whole covid ordeal.  Here in northern Michigan the covid floors are inhabited by those who have had both jabs and are fully boosted, it is a rarity for one who hasn't had the jab to be admitted.

Close to 40% of U.S. households use natural gas for cooking and propane is used in nearly 12 million homes (myself included) as well.  States with large urban populations have a higher percentage with those who cook with natural gas (CA, NY, NJ, FL and such).  Funny how we haven't read about this being an issue until now as it became a commercial success in the 1880's in Britain and became widely used in the U.S. in the mid 20th century.  We will have to wait and see how this all plays out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 7:41am
Originally posted by offgrid



Also the propane  stove I have works and I learned long ago that life goes much more smoothly for me when I stick to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach.LOL


Now that is something the people working for us in Washington need to be reminded.  Thanks OG for bringing that "idea" to our attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 7:43am
+1
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 8:29am
The thing I have going for me with that approach at home is that it isn't a democracy,  I generally  get to decide what's broke and needs fixing  and what's not. But even at home, my wife adds things to my list that I think are just fine  all the time. Like I said, it's not a drmocracy.   Cry

The problem we face as a democratic society is that we dont agree at all on what's broke and needs fixing and what's ok as it is. Nothing new, no one on either side ever gets sent to Washington just to leave everything as it is. And I guess this is starting to risk getting too political so I'll stop now 
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David and Danette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 9:55am
   The main concern appears to be asthma in children from the pollutants of burning natural gas. I don't think too much will happen anytime soon but I am thinking in the future there will be changes.You can try and search for the article (Gas-Stove ban) under market watch on yahoo.com. There have been some changes already taking place in California and New York limiting the use of gas stove tops and ovens. With everything going electric a better source of electricity will be needed for our cooking and transportation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 10:06am
Noting that over 50% of children with asthma are exposed to SHH (second hand smoke - from cigarettes, cigars and the like) why not do something novel and ban cigarettes, that is a much larger issue than this issue with natural gas.  But, o yeah, that would make too much sense.
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