R-pod Owners Forum Homepage

This site is free to use.
Donations benefit a non-profit Girls Softball organization

Forum Home Forum Home > General Camping > Cook'n With Gas
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Nitrogen Dioxide
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Nitrogen Dioxide

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Message
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nitrogen Dioxide
    Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 11:02am
Originally posted by jato

As long as there is ventilation when cooking the "potential" issue is addressed.  Personally i dislike having the government dictate what we can and cannot do as our Founding Fathers intended that we make our own personal choices.  The latest fiasco was shown by the whole covid ordeal.  Here in northern Michigan the covid floors are inhabited by those who have had both jabs and are fully boosted, it is a rarity for one who hasn't had the jab to be admitted.

Close to 40% of U.S. households use natural gas for cooking and propane is used in nearly 12 million homes (myself included) as well.  States with large urban populations have a higher percentage with those who cook with natural gas (CA, NY, NJ, FL and such).  Funny how we haven't read about this being an issue until now as it became a commercial success in the 1880's in Britain and became widely used in the U.S. in the mid 20th century.  We will have to wait and see how this all plays out.

Hmmm...

First, Covid. About 80% of the adult population has been vaccinated and the older and less healthy population are overrepresented in this group. Most of the unvaccinated population has had Covid at least once so also has developed some immunity. Also it is well understood that immunity declines over time after either vaccination or infection. And, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is mutating rapidly so there are new variants all the time which limit both the effectivness of the vaccines and of immunity after infection. And uptake of the booster shots has been much lower than the original vaccine. Given all the above, of course more vaccinated people are dying from Covid now than unvaccinated people. For myself, I have a depressed immune system so anything that reduces my risk of contracting it is good  I will continue to take every Covid booster shot that is available to me. 

Re burning natural gas, while the CO2 induced greenhouse effect was first identified in 1859 and anthropogenic climate change was first predicted in the 1890's, no one identified that it was actually occuring until the 1930s. So that is whats different now from the 1880s. Things change and our scientific understanding improves over time.

Take lead pipes as an example. They were always a problem, we just didn't understand it way  back in the day. We don't gripe about not being allowed  to use lead in our pipes anymore do we? Even though that was normal back in the 1800s? Of course not. We know it's dangerous and anyhow we've developed better alternative materials. Bet the lead industry bitched about it at the time though. 

The same thing will occur in our view of fossil fuel use in the future. For many folks whose homes are powered by solar or drive EVs that day has already arrived. My current house is 100% electric. . I dont miss having natural gas at all. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
David and Danette View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1214
Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 11:28am
offgrid you are right we are forever learning people have complained about certain pesticides being banned but they were banned for our own good and the good of the environment. It may be that our great great grandchildren will think that we cooked with natural gas strange like we may think today using a outhouse is strange. It has taken some time for solar panels and electric vehicles to become popular and I think it may take time for gas stoves to become unpopular.
2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab


Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 11:31am
btw the first mandatory smallpox  vaccinations have been around from  the early  1800s. So the founding fathers were still around when that started.   Mandatory quarantines were used way prior to that, dating back to the 1400s. Quarantine comes from  40 in Italian, which is how many days  the Venetians  used to require ships with folks carrying disease to stay at anchor before disembarking.
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6285
Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 12:09pm
For some things, natural gas or propane is indispensable. Have you ever gone into a Chinese restaurant and seen them cooking in a wok over an electric coil? The high-output gas burners are essential to getting the flavors and textures we expect. That is why we can't duplicate them at home with stove-top woks on an electric cooktop, at least not yet. That being said, they also have massive ventilation hoods to carry off the combustion by-products.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
David and Danette View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1214
Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 1:48pm
 Now it has reached headline news with President Biden being asked about it. I am thinking this may come and go in that there will be a lot of lobbyists getting involved and things could take a different direction. Time will tell but I will still make sure we have proper ventilation when cooking with gas.
2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab


Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2023 at 1:33am
Originally posted by StephenH

For some things, natural gas or propane is indispensable. Have you ever gone into a Chinese restaurant and seen them cooking in a wok over an electric coil? The high-output gas burners are essential to getting the flavors and textures we expect. That is why we can't duplicate them at home with stove-top woks on an electric cooktop, at least not yet. That being said, they also have massive ventilation hoods to carry off the combustion by-products.

Doesn't have to be gas. Just has to be hot as all get out. Looks like you need about 100k btu/hr (30kw) for a real commercial wok. So guess what? 

https://m.made-in-china.com/product/30kw-Two-Burner-Induction-Wok-Stove-730722065.html

And it's not even expensive as commercial ranges go. 

You do need 380V 3 phase service to operate at this power level. Pretty common in China. 480Vac 3 phase is the common commercial service in North America. Even better.

For home use you can buy one of these. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SPT-11-in-1-Burner-Black-Induction-Cooktop-Common-11-in-Actual-14-75-in/1002656866?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-app-_-ggl-_-PLA_APP_118_Refrigerators-Freezers-_-1002656866-_-online-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&ds_rl=1286890&gclid=CjwKCAiA2fmdBhBpEiwA4CcHzbe0BhQn0vkTYuch6b5K9TPnCGfDjFEWKvuH51mHXk_iYwx-h6R_LBoCqusQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

So converting away from burning methane or propane is very doable  Like with EVs, it will require some infrastructure upgrades and changes, sure. Big deal. Most of rural America had no electricity at all not so long ago. 

So what happened to that American can-do attitude? We went to the moon with 1960s tech. Did we export it to China along with all our technology? Frankly I'm getting tired of all the whining and winging about how great things used to be. That's what the Brits did, and they created the industrial revolution.  Look what happened to their empire.

Things change, get on board or get out of the way, but be ready to face the consequences when your competition leaves you in the dust. IMHO, our days are numbered if we dont change our attitude, and soon. 




1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
lostagain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Quaker Hill, CT
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2586
Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2023 at 6:31am
Gas stoves, like incandescent lightbulbs, are eventually going to go the way of the covered wagon.  The question is when will we have an adequate replacement and what will be the cost for retrofitting homes or other buildings to accommodate the new technology.  In our home, it would cost several thousand Dollars to eliminate the gas fired boiler that heats our house and water and our gas stove.  Unfortunately, my Social Security check won't go a long way to pay for it.  The same with electric vehicles, we cannot afford to go into debt to buy a costly electric vehicle much less add a charging circuit to plug it into.  If we required all new buildings to be wired for electric heat and cooking, it'd be a tremendous step in gradually phasing out the use of methane in our homes, but it'll take some time.

In a perfect world, we'd all have the money to make substantial individual efforts to reduce CO2 emissions, but we don't.  Given that over 50% of CO2 emissions are said to be from industrial energy use and electrical generation, perhaps those might be good places to start that could really make an impact.  For example, if we could find new ways to make cement, we'd make a huge dent in CO2 emissions as it makes up almost 10% of the world's CO2 emissions.  Moving to industrial scale energy generation from non-fossil fuel sources would also make a huge dent in CO2 emissions.  So would feeding our cattle a bit of kelp, that seems to reduce their farting and belching of methane. 

It's easy to get angry about the idea that the government enters our personal lives, but that has always been the case, whether it was being forced to work for the lords of the manor as a peasant on his land, practice his religion, making personal medical decisions that are uniquely private, not raising pigs in your suburban home, or having to be quarantined as OG points out.  No one likes to be told what to do.  At the risk of continuing the political tone of this thread, I can personally say that I never met any of our founding fathers, though sometimes I feel that old.  I don't have a clue what they may have truly intended.  I have read much about the founding of our country, but I have to say that virtually everyone, including myself, says the founding fathers intended this or that based on our own biases and preferences.  And what difference does it make anyway?  We live in this world now, not in the days before indoor plumbing, unheated homes, horse transportation, and black powder muzzle loading muskets.  Truly, none of us really knows what the founders of our country intended; we just make stuff up to support our preferences.  We need to be practical and pragmatic, while trying to preserve the balance between our individuality, the needs of our communities, and respect for one another.
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6285
Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2023 at 9:28am
I stand corrected. Still, I don't see any of those induction cookers in use at any of the Chinese restaurants to which I have been. There are also people who should not be anywhere near one of them, such as people who have pacemakers. There is no "one size fits all" solution.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
gpokluda View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Location: NM
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 270
Post Options Post Options   Quote gpokluda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2023 at 10:52am
Long video, but this individual managed to engineer an all electric trailer including an induction cooktop. Probably wasn't cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEmWZViNs3c
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6285
Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2023 at 11:00am
Fast, Cheap, Quality. You can only pick 2 of the three. Smile
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.64
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz