R-pod Owners Forum Homepage

This site is free to use.
Donations benefit a non-profit Girls Softball organization

Forum Home Forum Home > R-pod Discussion Forums > I need HELP!!!
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Weight Distribution Hitches
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Weight Distribution Hitches

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Message
Skip View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Location: NE Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Post Options Post Options   Quote Skip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Weight Distribution Hitches
    Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 8:58am
I wonder why wall to side separation in in the front only? The WDH forces? Rusty screws should also rust on the back and sidewalls! 
One reason I use and Anderson is I can adjust my “forces” on my skimpy frame and have to some degree.
Thanks for the “welcome” but I have been here for several years just don’t post. I do read everyday just don’t comment. 
Glad I struck a nerve , food for thought: front window issue= torque? Wall separation = torque? 
I’m 75 years old and remember when the frames were frames and a WDH couldn’t flex a tubular member as it was not installed for weight or cost.
Bye…….
Camper owner 47 years, 2 tents, 6 trailers seem to think I’ve seen it all!
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6288
Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 9:32am
Wall to side separation can be due to frame flexing which can happen with or without a WDH. Also, where does water kicked up by the tow vehicle's tires hit? Other areas may get wet, but how much water is driven in by the force of being kicked up and the aerodynamics of the movement down the highway? If something isn't perfectly sealed, which is likely with quickly constructed trailers, then water can find its way in and cause the rusted screws.

Those old days of heavy frames also meant that the trailers would weigh much, much more and require a larger vehicle to tow. I know people who have Airstream trailers, and they also have their share of problems. Perhaps they are not the same as those of RPods, but they are not immune to problems. If you are going to compare, you would need to compare within the same class/price range. I think you would find that the problems we experience are likely the same as other brands. We have this great forum where we can go to find out how to address those problems.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
Skip View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Location: NE Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Post Options Post Options   Quote Skip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 9:53am
You think I don’t like my pod, wrong I love it!
I also loved my unique TrailManor and my Coachman bunkhouse. 
My point is WDH on a pod can cause issues, his original question was what should he use? My response was maybe nothing, a good sway bar if you have a decent tv. Sure doubt you would recommend a 10000 lb set up
Camper owner 47 years, 2 tents, 6 trailers seem to think I’ve seen it all!
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6288
Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 10:13am
I have the 600/6,000 lb setup. It is adequate. I would not recommend the 10,000 lb set-up either. If I had known about the Andersen hitch, I would likely have gone with it. When I purchased my RPod in December, 2015, that is what the dealer recommended and installed.

If someone has a suitable tow vehicle with heavy duty suspension, then some form of sway control would be sufficient. I am partial to the electronic sway control. I have the Hayes Sway-Master. The Tuson Electronic Sway Control is good because it controls the brakes on each side separately. So does the Lippert Sway Command. With these, one does not have to worry about disconnecting it before backing up, so no bent hitch parts.

My Frontier was not adequate by a long shot. The WD hitch is needed, so I use it.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 10:21am
Ok Skip, certainly didn't mean to offend if I did. Let's change it to welcome to the group of active participants on the forum. We'd love for you to share the benefits of your experience here.

And a good discussion/debate about wdhs is great too, thats
how we all learn.

For better or worse, the cost of steel and other materials is ever increasing, as is the cost of fuel and the proportion of lighter vehicles on the roads. All that combines to reduce the design margins we used to see in vehicle frames. And in structures of all kinds for that matter. Look how little wood goes into home construction today compared to 40-50 years ago. I miss that solidity too, but it's gone forever I'm sure. One reason bought a 27 year old class B this time, it's built like a brick you know what.

Re front frame bending vs rear, it's been a few years since I did my calcs, so I don't recall the exact numbers. I do recall that bending failure at the rear axle occurred at around 2 Gs or a bit lower, which is a pretty low number. You can easily get that if you hit a pothole or curb hard. So the design is marginal at that spot, which is born out as there have been several frame failures there reported. And a wdh can increase that by a couple hundred pounds, so around the 5 to 10 percent range.

I recall the front frame loads are less, and to my knowledge no one has reported a frame failure there. Yet. The wdh increases the load there too.

Flexing (aka deflection), is a separate calculation from yeild in bending. Deflection isn't permanent, bending beyond the yield point is. Can't now recall if I looked at that before or not. At the time I was more interest in understanding all the bent trailers.

So yes it is possible that displacement could be high enough to flex the wall attachments but not high enough to bend the frame permanently. And no doubt too much defection will damage the trailer box. I'll try to revisit this when I get the chance.

Skip, can you clarify how the Anderson wdh allows more or different adjustment of trailer frame loads than other wdhs? AFAIK all of them are adjustable for tension, which is what changes the TV front rear balance, and the frame and trailer axle loading.



1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
gpokluda View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Location: NM
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 275
Post Options Post Options   Quote gpokluda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 10:27am
Skip, FWIW When we purchased our Rpod new, the RV dealer told us the exact same thing they told you. No WDH needed, just go with a friction bar. After a couple of short trips, I ordered a WDH from Etrailer. 
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120
Back to Top
lostagain View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Quaker Hill, CT
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2587
Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 2:02pm
Glad to see that someone else on this board is 75 besides me.  

I've adjusted our Fastway E2 for two different trucks and trailers.  It was mostly just a matter of moving the hitch bracket or the torsion bar L brackets up or down, to achieve a level TV.  Fastway has a helpful video on how to do it.  Since all WDH's are used on different TV/trailer configurations, it'd seem that they'd all have to have some kind of adjustment capacity.  I never towed our 172 with our Ford and it may have not really needed a WHD for that weight of trailer.  It sure smoothes out the ride with our Sonoma, though.
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
Back to Top
jato View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Location: Kewadin, MI
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by gpokluda

Skip, FWIW When we purchased our Rpod new, the RV dealer told us the exact same thing they told you. No WDH needed, just go with a friction bar. After a couple of short trips, I ordered a WDH from Etrailer. 


Yes, welcome to the forum.  As you see there is a wealth of information to be gleaned here.  I have benefited many times from others wisdom and experience on this forum.

I also was told when picking up our brand new 2011 177 back in March 2011 that no WDH was needed, he sold a $ 40 Curt friction bar and that is all that is currently used 12 years later.  Tow vehicles that have been used mainly include the following: '08 and '13 Explorers and '11 and '17 F-150.  Over 41,000 miles towed under extreme weather (snow, sleet, hail, high cross-winds) and road (8-10" water, gravel w/potholes, sand, two tracking) conditions.  Have no complaints - the 177 has held up extremely well.
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
Back to Top
JP Dub (W) View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jan 2023
Location: FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Post Options Post Options   Quote JP Dub (W) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 6:09pm
Thank you all for the info.
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 8:40am
Originally posted by lostagain

Glad to see that someone else on this board is 75 besides me.  
I've adjusted our Fastway E2 for two different trucks and trailers.  It was mostly just a matter of moving the hitch bracket or the torsion bar L brackets up or down, to achieve a level TV.  Fastway has a helpful video on how to do it.  Since all WDH's are used on different TV/trailer configurations, it'd seem that they'd all have to have some kind of adjustment capacity.  I never towed our 172 with our Ford and it may have not really needed a WHD for that weight of trailer.  It sure smoothes out the ride with our Sonoma, though.


It is a common misunderstanding that you are supposed to adjust your wdh to achieve a level tow vehicle.

That is not the case. Understanding why is important because it also explains why using a wdh can be so helpful in improving ride, handing, braking, and safety while towing, especially with smaller shorter TVs.

Consider what happens when you hitch up a trailer with say a 500 lb tongue weight. Where does the extra 500 lbs go? If you said the rear axle you'd be right but that's only the beginning.

Think of the TV as a kids teeter totter with the pivot at the rear axle and a kid sitting on the front axle, and nobody on the other end of the teeter. The kid is holding himself up, all his weight is on his feet. That's a tow vehicle with no trailer.

Now, put another kid on the other end of the teeter. That's the equivalent of dropping the trailer hitch onto the ball. What happens? The first kid suddenly has less weight on his feet. If they're well balanced neither kid has to hold himself up. But it's not like the kids are suddenly weightless, their weight has to go somewhere. That somewhere is the pivot point of course, which suddenly went from having no weight on it to having the weight of two kids.

Same thing happens to the rear axle of the TV. It always ends up with more weight on it than the actual tongue weight. How much more depends on 3 things. The tongue weight. The tow vehicle wheelbase and the distance from the rear axle to the ball. Just like when you balance a fat kid with a skinny kid on a teeter by putting the skinny kid farther out or the fat kid farther in, having a long wheelbase tow vehicle results in less lightening of the front axle than if you have a short wheelbase TV. That's why smaller shorter wheelbase vehicles are not as good at towing as longer ones, and the worst ones for towing have a short wheelbase and a long rear overhang. In fact if you had a vehicle where the rear overhang was the same as the wheelbase and you put a 500 lb tongue weight on it, the weight on the rear axle would be 1000lb and the front axle weight would go down by 500lbs.

Ok, so now back how a wdh helps and how to set it up. Your tow vehicle, whether it's a pickup or an SUV, is designed to carry load primarily in the rear. It's rear axle is built heavier for that reason. But of course you don't want more weight back there than necessary. Your front axle is expected to have a certain amount of weight on it in order for it to steer and brake the vehicle properly. So if you can you want the front axle to be carrying it's normal weight just like it would without the trailer.

The wdh achieves both these objectives by applying a torque (technically it should be called a moment because nothing is actually moving) at the ball, which tries to rotate the trailer back on it's axle while pushing the tow vehicle down on its front axle). These two moments balance each other, so nothing moves. If they didn't the whole rig would want to flip over on its back.

Your wdh is set up correctly when the weight on the front axle is the same as it was before you hung the trailer on the ball. That means that the tongue weight and no more than the tongue weight has been added to the rear axle, which achieves that objective of keeping the rear axle load low.

But the rear of your tow vehicle will have the additional 500lbs on it so it will be sitting lower than it was before, and the vehicle will not be level. That's ok, it's what the engineers who designed the TV intended.

If you tensioned the wdh further trying to get the TV level, you would be stressing both the trailer and the TV more than necessary, and also putting more weight on the front axle than was intended by it's designers.

So how do you know when you have the right wdh tension to load the front axle correctly? By using suspension height to gauge load weight.

Park your rig in a flat parking lot. Put a piece of painters tape on each front fender directly above the axle. Measure the height to the tapes from the ground with the trailer hitch off the ball. Then drop the trailer onto the ball and tension up the wdh until the height of the tapes drops back down to what it was, but no farther.

Hope all that is clear...
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.64
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz