tow vehicles

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   I nearly purchased an r-pod 177 yesterday, I loved it, I coveted it, I would loved to consummated the deal.....BUT.....I drive what I feel would be an underpowered tow vehicle for the weight of the trailer (which is approx. 2285 lbs, dry and empty). I drive a 2010 Toyota, 2.5 liter, 4 cylinder RAV4. I love the vehicle and it is perfect for us in all ways, it gets really great mileage and has ample power on the road. 
However, the maximum tow weight rating for it is 1,500 lbs. The RV dealer made me a great offer, was even going to throw in the cost of installing the towing package on my car (the receiver, the wiring, trailer brakes, load-leveler option and anti-sway control, etc.) for FREE, included in the cost of the trailer. Which only made the already discounted pricing even better. He assured me that I would have no problems towing it with my RAV4. 

However, my Toyota dealer's service manager, as well as an independent RV service center here where I live, said otherwise. They advised against it, saying it would be too far over the vehicles rated limits. 

If it were a V-6 instead of a 4 banger, I would not have hesitated. I don't doubt the honesty of the RV dealer and, as he continued to reassure me that my car could do the job with NOOOOOO problems, over and over, I simply felt pushing it nearly 800 lbs (dry and empty) over my vehicles max. limit was NOT a smart thing to do. He continued to guarantee that the towing package would do the job, all by itself. However, I pointed out to him that if my engine were to be damaged, or my transmission and/or rear-end were to go out, they (the RV dealer) sure as heck were not going to fix it or buy me a new car. I did not doubt their workmanship on the tow package installation one bit. That was not the issue to me. 

My having to back out of what was (considering everything aside from the tow vehicle issue) a really great deal, was very disappointing. My wife's been depressed all day(!). 

My question to you folks is: Did I do the right thing? Or, COULD my RAV4 have pulled it with no problems (immediately, or more importantly, down the road)? I'd really appreciate a response from anyone out there who has an informed opinion on the matter.

Sorry for being so long-winded......
Dan
Coburg, Oregon

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Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2012 Location: Coburg, Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Topic: tow vehicles Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 1:18am
	I nearly purchased an r-pod 177 yesterday, I loved it, I coveted it, I would loved to consummated the deal.....BUT.....I drive what I feel would be an underpowered tow vehicle for the weight of the trailer (which is approx. 2285 lbs, dry and empty). I drive a 2010 Toyota, 2.5 liter, 4 cylinder RAV4. I love the vehicle and it is perfect for us in all ways, it gets really great mileage and has ample power on the road. However, the maximum tow weight rating for it is 1,500 lbs. The RV dealer made me a great offer, was even going to throw in the cost of installing the towing package on my car (the receiver, the wiring, trailer brakes, load-leveler option and anti-sway control, etc.) for FREE, included in the cost of the trailer. Which only made the already discounted pricing even better. He assured me that I would have no problems towing it with my RAV4. However, my Toyota dealer's service manager, as well as an independent RV service center here where I live, said otherwise. They advised against it, saying it would be too far over the vehicles rated limits. If it were a V-6 instead of a 4 banger, I would not have hesitated. I don't doubt the honesty of the RV dealer and, as he continued to reassure me that my car could do the job with NOOOOOO problems, over and over, I simply felt pushing it nearly 800 lbs (dry and empty) over my vehicles max. limit was NOT a smart thing to do. He continued to guarantee that the towing package would do the job, all by itself. However, I pointed out to him that if my engine were to be damaged, or my transmission and/or rear-end were to go out, they (the RV dealer) sure as heck were not going to fix it or buy me a new car. I did not doubt their workmanship on the tow package installation one bit. That was not the issue to me. My having to back out of what was (considering everything aside from the tow vehicle issue) a really great deal, was very disappointing. My wife's been depressed all day(!). My question to you folks is: Did I do the right thing? Or, COULD my RAV4 have pulled it with no problems (immediately, or more importantly, down the road)? I'd really appreciate a response from anyone out there who has an informed opinion on the matter. Sorry for being so long-winded...... Dan Coburg, Oregon
	Dan

marwayne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2011 Location: Edmonton AB Can Online Status: Offline Posts: 1002	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 1:53am
	You did the right thing. The 177 dryweight is 2418#, that does not include batteries LP tanks AC or microwave. Your rav4 is rated at 1500#, lets say there are 2 people in your TV at 150# each thats 300#, so you only have 1200# towing cap. left. If you travel very,very light your loaded trailer will way at least between 3000 to 3200#. Wise choice.
	If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.

Kickstart Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Location: Ocean Shores, W Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 2:27am
	I feel bad for you, but you made the smart and proper decision. You live in the Pacific Northwest, and no trailer can safely be towed in our area with a marginal tow vehicle. There would be many situations (i.e. passes and foothills of the Cascades and winds of the coast and Columbia Gorge) that would make towing even with the RAV v/6 a questionable decision. The wheelbase of the RAV is just too short to tow steadily/ wherever/whenever you want in our region. Lots of us have made the wrong decision and not chosen our tow rigs wisely. Take it from me, it ain't enjoyable, and it does become expensive. The only real reason for RVing is to have fun, and that combination would not have let you do that. Hopefully some day you can happily join us.
	'10 RP 175-Replaced by 2014 Kodiak 173 QBSL '12 Toyota Tundra '05 Sportster (half a Harley) Retired-We're on Beach Time!

Alex&Marie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25 Feb 2012 Location: Virginia Online Status: Offline Posts: 63	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 2:39am
	I agree you did the right thing. I had a bad experience years ago with a Dodge Caravan and boat on trailor. Ended up ruining the transmission the second week after the sailboat's delivery on the first 600 mile trip. Stubborn me, I got the trany replaced and continued to use the TV to pull the boat but just for local trips. It lasted about 18 months then the engine failed quite spactacularly spraying oil all over the place including the car too close behind behind me on I-95. Since then I have had several other TT / TV combinations. I also always get the full towing package from the TV dealers. I am very conservative and rarely pull anything that is more than 50% of the TV rated load. Probably too conservative. But it has given peace of mind on long distances, steep terrain, snowy icy conditions, and not be worried when 18 wheelers roar past on an interstate. I'm sure the Rav can pull it on flat terrain in ideal road conditions, ideal weather, no nutty drivers sharing the highway with you. But why take the risk?
	Alex and Marie 2012 R-pod 177 2006 Toyota Tundra

barbanjoe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Location: Arizona Online Status: Offline Posts: 126	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 10:19am
	[QUOTE=Dan] My question to you folks is: Did I do the right thing? Or, COULD my RAV4 have pulled it with no problems (immediately, or more importantly, down the road)? I'd really appreciate a response from anyone out there who has an informed opinion ...... Dan, the problem is a short wheel base tow vehicle does make backing up with a trailer harder,even with trailer brakes you are putting more stress on the rather small brakes of the Rav 4, and are are going to be almost double the rating of the tow vehicle considering what is in the tv when you are loaded to go including paseengers. All in all a bad idea,IMHO, of course others will disagree, but Toyota who designed,engineered and would be an authority say no. P.S. I tow with a jeep rated for 5000 lbs, and the wheel base is still an issue, but I have NO stability problems ever.
	BarbanJoe 010 Rpod 171 02 Jeep 4x4 12 Ram 1500

Seanl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19 Sep 2011 Location: Fredericton NB Online Status: Offline Posts: 633	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 10:59am
	I think you did the right thing. I tow with a 2009 Jeep Liberty rated at 5000 lbs with a weight distribution hitch 3500 without. It has a 3.7 Liter V6 engine and I don't think I would tow my Rp173 (weighs 2300 dry) with anything less. None of the RAV4 s in 2010 had a rating of over 1500 lbs so I don't know if it is the suspension, the frame, the brakes or all the about but Toyota did not feel confident your vehicle would tow this much so I wouldn't.
	Sean, 2011 Rpod RP-173,2009 Jeep Liberty Rocky Mountain Edition

2Peas-n-Rpod Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 05 Jun 2011 Location: Nampa, ID Online Status: Offline Posts: 96	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 11:47am
	You made the right choice. Towing in the right conditions, with a capable vehicle has enough inherent risks. You would really regret trying to tow with an underpowered TV, and it would make going camping a miserable experience for you. We started towing with a Montero that had a 3.8L V-6 engine, and even that was right on the edge of our towing capacity and made traveling not too pleasant. We traded the Montero in for a Ford F-150 with a 5.4L V-8, and a much longer wheel base - what a huge difference that made. Now we know we have the towing power and stability to make it over all the mountain passes we have out here in the West. Now towing the pod is a pleasure, not a task. You will be so much better off if you have the right tow vehicle - despite what the RV dealer says. Good luck!
	2011 R-Pod 182G Hood River Edition "Ribbitt" Pod (now sold) 2000 Ford F150 5.4L V8 TV

Camper Bob Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Location: Portland Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 913	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 11:50am
	I think that all has been said that can be said about your towing concerns. An overzealous dealer would have created a very dangerous situation. I wonder if you asked the dealer about his liability if you had a catastrophic engine/transmission failure, or worse an accident caused by undersized brakes on your tow vehicle. Would he would put his suggestions in writing? I believe he would very quickly dance away from suggesting that your combo is adequate. The engineers who design our vehicles probably are somewhat optimistic in their tow ratings. Surpassing those ratings put you and the rest of us in great peril. Not to mention the added stress on the tv's frame. We have a 171 which we tow with a 2005 Chev. Tahoe with a tow rating of 7,500 lbs. We are conservative in loading our trailer, and I recently stopped on a state of Oregon, truck scale, and was told our weight was 2800 lbs. With the added tongue weight of, lets get crazy, 300 lbs. as we have dual LP tanks and a size 27 battery. That would make our trailer weight of about 3100 lbs. Well within our tow limits. Although our gas mileage drops to about 10 mpg, I am very comfortable going up and over mountains and do not have a sway device installed. Don't think you have to get a big tv like we have, but certainly far more than what you would be towing with now. Be safe and upgrade your tow vehicle to something more adequate to pull your trailer. Hope you join all of us soon and show off your new tv and trailer. You did the right thing. Safe Travels.
	Camper Bob and Camper Sue Gracie the Wonder Dog (12 LB. Mini Dachshund) 2013 Rpod 171HRE(ORPod) 2016 Lance 1685 2015 Nissan Pathfinder

techntrek Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group - pHp Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Location: MD Online Status: Offline Posts: 9059	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 12:33pm
	Welcome. As has been said many times, your final decision was the right one. The biggest problem with a short wheelbase is stability on the road. Too short and the trailer will push you around, more so during an emergency situation right when you need control the most. Your TV is probably underpowered for the job, and brakes too small. Even though the pod has brakes of it own your TV still provides some of the extra stopping power. You are welcome to stick around if you have further questions, even about other small campers. Somewhere around here we have posts on other ultralight campers that would be light enough for you.
	Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual

Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2012 Location: Coburg, Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 3:03pm
	Thank all of you that replied. You confirmed to me that I DID do the right thing. The additional advice was most helpful, too. I appreciate it.
	Dan