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Topic ClosedWondering if torque converter isn't locking up

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techntrek View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wondering if torque converter isn't locking up
    Posted: 25 Sep 2013 at 11:49am
Pieces of a puzzle have been falling into place and I wonder if I've finally found an answer:
 
1. Previously when towing tranny temp was below 200 F, now it is 225-235.  I blamed this on the generator box I had mounted up front for our 3-week trip this summer, but the last trip out I only had 2 small bikes mounted up front and it still ran to those temps.
2. Previously when not towing tranny temp was below 170, now it is 170-180.
3. Tapping the break at steady highway speed does not raise RPMs at all, expected when converter unlocks.
4. Per-tank MPGs have dropped from 19-20 to 17, which I would expect with no lockup.
5. MPGs for this summer's trip averaged 8.9, which is way below normal IMO.
 
Any opinions or ideas?  The engine light isn't on so no fatal codes have been thrown and I haven't had the chance to stop by the local parts store to have them check the codes.
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 6:54am
I have the same "package" as you - 5.3L, 6 speed, 3.42 diff.  I have only had it 3 months but your figures sound low (compared to mine).  As I mentioned in another post, I liked the 4 speed better.
 
At 70mph, I get just a bit under 10mpg and the converter almost never locks.
At 60mph, I get 12+mpg and the converter doesn't lock much of the time (but more).
Transmission temps remain under (your mentioned) 170 however, it has never been really hot (ambient air temp) when I was towing. 
I have found tow/haul mode to degrade performance (with the 6 speed) and do not use it.
 
I'm no mechanic and it is hard to troubleshoot from several hundred miles away but, my first inclination would be to check to see if you might have a brake pad dragging on the TV.  This would make the motor work harder, raise trans temps and, hurt your mpgs.  After driving a while, see if any of the wheels feel hotter than the others or jack it up and give 'em a spin.
 
Note that when the torque converter locks, temps will climb some due to the fluid circulation (to the radiator) slowing down.  If the trans starts running "too hot", try downshifting, and thus, turning more rpms and speeding up the fluid circulation.
 
   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:27am
Thanks.
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 9:22am
Have you ever considered buying a code reader.  I bought an inexpensive one on eBay several years ago when my "Check engine" light came on in the CRV I owned back then.  Right away, the codes told me that both oxygen sensors were bad.  An easy fix.  Since then I have used it on various cars and SUVs to check for suspected problems.  The readers are very simple to used.  The most difficult thing for me was finding the socket under the dash.  I carry mine in my TV, just in case.  I don't know if this would pinpoint a possible existing problem in your case, but it might.

Bob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 10:31am

Someone on another forum just recommended to me the Interceptor gauge.  It includes a ton of info that the well-known Scanguage doesn't provide, allows control of the engine fans, and reads/resets trouble codes.  Perfect for this situation, it shows the lockup signal and the actual torque converter slip % (or the actual tranny input & output RPMs alternatively).  So it would show me when the computer wants it to lockup and if it actually is.  Not cheap at $250 but I'll spend that on dealer diagnostics to tell me the same thing and there are several parameters this thing will show that I'd like to monitor but my dash display doesn't show.  Time to pull out the credit card.

Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Sleepless

I bought an inexpensive one on eBay several years ago when my "Check engine" light came on in the CRV I owned back then.

I'd be interested in more info on that code reader, please. 
.: Mark & Beth :: Silverado 5.3L :: 2018 rPod 180 :.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 1:39pm
Techntrek, in your situation it will probably pay to buy the scanner you mentioned.  I needed one only to analyze the most simplest problems, so I bought about the least expensive one I could find.

HuronSailor, I will have to look at mine later today to see what brand it is.  It is one of a number of the cheapest ones I found on eBay.  They all are imported and seem to be virtually identical.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 1:44pm
This is typical of the one I bought. Cheap! Cheap!  But it serves my purposes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-Bluetooth-Car-Diagnostic-Tool-OBD2-II-Auto-Code-Scan-Scanner-Reader-/231050894949?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item35cbb4de65&vxp=mtr
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:06pm
Hey Techntrek, just few questions pieces to get a clearer picture of your problem.

Transmission oil temperatures are dictated by both the friction in the transmission and the ambient temperature of the air passing through the air to oil transmission cooler. (sometimes called an auxiliary transmission oil cooler) Even with a air to oil cooler, there is usually a cooler in the radiator, it helps with transmission "warm up". If there is still an internal oil cooler in the radiator, engine coolant temperature can still be a factor. In a modern, pressurized cooling system, engine coolant temperature can reach 240+ degrees without coolant loss. That said:

Do you have an air to oil or auxiliary oil cooler?
If you don't have a air to oil cooler, has your engine coolant temperature increased?
How "old" is your transmission oil?
Have you visually checked your transmission oil?
Is it brown?
Does it smell "burnt" (Burnt, damaged, and dirty transmission oil absorbs and releases heat differently than clean fresh oil.)
Is there any difference cruising at a steady highway speed with the "tow/haul" button engaged or disengaged? Does the led light up when the tow/haul mode is enabled? (note: in some transmissions the tow/haul disengages the lockup clutch only, in some it locks out the highest (overdrive)gear also)

Sorry if I've "muddied up the waters", but it takes lots of input to troubleshoot an automatic transmission from a couple hundred miles.
BTW 250 degrees will cut your transmission oil life in half

Old Dingo and/or Mrs. Dingo
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 10:05pm

No problem, question away.  It has the RPO code for the "heavy duty trailering/cooling package" which I believe includes a secondary cooler along with the one inside the radiator.  There is definitely something in front of the radiator but I've never traced the lines to see if that is it or if it's just the A/C condenser.

During this summer's trip after about 30 minutes on the road both of the temps would rise above normal.  The coolant is normally 210 but would slowly rise to 235, then you could tell the fans kicked on because it would quickly drop to 210.  Repeat the rest of the day.  The tranny temps got up to 241 at one point but usually stayed below 235 after I started using tow/haul mode.  The temp would range between 225 and 235 most of the time.  No change to my coolant temps when not towing.

I assume the tranny oil is factory fresh from 2010.  I've had it since spring 2012, about 27000 miles then and about 52000 now so no reason it would have been changed before I got it.  Checking the fluid for color and smell is part of my buying routine, and I keep an eye (and nose) on it on a regular basis.  Doesn't look dark or smell like burned popcorn even after this summer's bake-off.

As mentioned I did use tow/haul most of the time, it definitely locks out 6th.  It also adjusts the shift points and holds it in a lower gear longer before upshifting.  From what I've read it may make the torque lockup more aggressive but I haven't verified that yet.

Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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