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Topic ClosedWondering if torque converter isn't locking up

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techntrek View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wondering if torque converter isn't locking up
    Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 1:30pm
A quick update.  With my new Aeroforce Interceptor guage mounted for several weeks I've been keeping an eye on the tranny slip during regular driving, and so far it locks up just fine.  In fact, it locks up much earlier than I expected and stays locked up much longer, too.  For instance, it will lock up in 2nd or 3rd while accelerating which I think is amazing.  Haven't done any towing yet so that may still be another story.
 
The extra tranny cooler that was also recently installed has been keeping my non-towing tranny temps about 40 degrees cooler.  Again, no towing yet with this in place so we'll see how much that helps when I do.
 
Ironically the new generator I bought is about 3 inches taller than my old one, so I have to extend the box height, so I'll get even less air flow...
 
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 10:59pm
Well Techntrek, you may be right about your Chevrolet. If that's true, the increase in "slippage" without the lockup could explain the extra heat.
Most of my experience has been on my own Ford products and damage incurred to a torque converter towing in overdrive. I was told the torque converter's clutch wasn't strong enough for even a 3.0 V6. According to the techs at the dealer, my Jeep does not lock up in the tow haul mode, and stays in 5th gear.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 9:36pm

Yup.  If they do come to an agreement before Tuesday then they will fight over the debt ceiling which has a deadline of the 17th.  If they get past that, whatever they agree on this week will expire in mid-November and they'll be right back at it.  Again.  I think it is highly likely we'll get a shutdown at least once with so many opportunities.

Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 8:52am
Originally posted by techntrek

onfirmed lockup or not, it sounds like a professional checkup is in my future... once I find out if I'm furloughed as of Tuesday... or maybe on the 17th... or maybe again in mid-November. 


Are you a Federal Employee?  I faced many years with a similar uncertainty at the end of our Fiscal Years.

Bob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 11:00pm

Thanks.  Nothing seems unusual during daily driving.  I think the tranny temps are slightly higher than before once it gets to max temp, but that takes so long I don't always hit that point on my 35-45 minute drive to/from work.  So hard to say for sure.  I don't feel any odd vibrations, and I'm one of those types that is always in-tune with whatever I'm driving so I'd feel it if it was there.

You say the lockup is disabled in tow-haul mode, but from what I've read the opposite is true on this six-speed, with possible more aggressive lockup in tow-haul.  I'm sold on getting the gauge I mentioned - it has so much other useful info and is designed to be permanently mounted on the dash like old-style aftermarket analog gauges so it will be permanently used.  That will at least confirm if I'm getting lockup at all in normal and tow modes.

Confirmed lockup or not, it sounds like a professional checkup is in my future... once I find out if I'm furloughed as of Tuesday... or maybe on the 17th... or maybe again in mid-November. 

Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 6:38pm
Wow, Techntrek, you have been busy investigating! There could be several coolers in front of the radiator: A/C condenser, transmission oil cooler, power steering fluid cooler (similar design, but smaller), and in some rare cases an engine oil cooler.

It all sounds much like a typical towing situation, except in this specific case, temps and fuel consumption have suddenly changed without external changes (such as adding weight or wind resistance), indicating a mechanical problem. What is really unusual is that the situation does not seem to be getting worse.   

The fuel mileage, of course, can be effected by the lockup converter's performance, but the transmission temperature rise while in tow/haul wouldn't be effected by the lockup converter not operating. Because the lockup converter is disabled in that mode, converter lockup failure would not be the cause of the temperature rise (over the normal towing temperature) while towing.
A few fractured vanes in the converter could explain both of these variations, higher transmission oil heat and lower fuel mileage under all conditions, but usually you would feel a vibration from the "out of balance" condition of the converter, also you should notice some "compromised" performance in daily driving.

From several hundred miles away I would never "hang my hat" on such an unusual diagnosis, it sounds too much like more than one problem. At this point I would try one of the many automatic transmission shops that offer a "free" checkup. One of the dilemmas with buying an expensive scanner is it may not find the problem and even if it does, "you are still in, 'What do I do with it now?' territory". Unless you have a shop, access to parts, and the skill to make the repair, you are still stuck with having a transmission repair shop make them. The bad part of most automatic transmission repairs are they are usually made internally, meaning removal and disassembly, which is labor intensive, therefore, expensive. Good luck and keep us advised.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 10:05pm

No problem, question away.  It has the RPO code for the "heavy duty trailering/cooling package" which I believe includes a secondary cooler along with the one inside the radiator.  There is definitely something in front of the radiator but I've never traced the lines to see if that is it or if it's just the A/C condenser.

During this summer's trip after about 30 minutes on the road both of the temps would rise above normal.  The coolant is normally 210 but would slowly rise to 235, then you could tell the fans kicked on because it would quickly drop to 210.  Repeat the rest of the day.  The tranny temps got up to 241 at one point but usually stayed below 235 after I started using tow/haul mode.  The temp would range between 225 and 235 most of the time.  No change to my coolant temps when not towing.

I assume the tranny oil is factory fresh from 2010.  I've had it since spring 2012, about 27000 miles then and about 52000 now so no reason it would have been changed before I got it.  Checking the fluid for color and smell is part of my buying routine, and I keep an eye (and nose) on it on a regular basis.  Doesn't look dark or smell like burned popcorn even after this summer's bake-off.

As mentioned I did use tow/haul most of the time, it definitely locks out 6th.  It also adjusts the shift points and holds it in a lower gear longer before upshifting.  From what I've read it may make the torque lockup more aggressive but I haven't verified that yet.

Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:06pm
Hey Techntrek, just few questions pieces to get a clearer picture of your problem.

Transmission oil temperatures are dictated by both the friction in the transmission and the ambient temperature of the air passing through the air to oil transmission cooler. (sometimes called an auxiliary transmission oil cooler) Even with a air to oil cooler, there is usually a cooler in the radiator, it helps with transmission "warm up". If there is still an internal oil cooler in the radiator, engine coolant temperature can still be a factor. In a modern, pressurized cooling system, engine coolant temperature can reach 240+ degrees without coolant loss. That said:

Do you have an air to oil or auxiliary oil cooler?
If you don't have a air to oil cooler, has your engine coolant temperature increased?
How "old" is your transmission oil?
Have you visually checked your transmission oil?
Is it brown?
Does it smell "burnt" (Burnt, damaged, and dirty transmission oil absorbs and releases heat differently than clean fresh oil.)
Is there any difference cruising at a steady highway speed with the "tow/haul" button engaged or disengaged? Does the led light up when the tow/haul mode is enabled? (note: in some transmissions the tow/haul disengages the lockup clutch only, in some it locks out the highest (overdrive)gear also)

Sorry if I've "muddied up the waters", but it takes lots of input to troubleshoot an automatic transmission from a couple hundred miles.
BTW 250 degrees will cut your transmission oil life in half

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 1:44pm
This is typical of the one I bought. Cheap! Cheap!  But it serves my purposes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-Bluetooth-Car-Diagnostic-Tool-OBD2-II-Auto-Code-Scan-Scanner-Reader-/231050894949?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item35cbb4de65&vxp=mtr
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 1:39pm
Techntrek, in your situation it will probably pay to buy the scanner you mentioned.  I needed one only to analyze the most simplest problems, so I bought about the least expensive one I could find.

HuronSailor, I will have to look at mine later today to see what brand it is.  It is one of a number of the cheapest ones I found on eBay.  They all are imported and seem to be virtually identical.
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