Important - check this every time you set up |
Post Reply | Page <1 89101112 22> |
Author | |
Bulldogpod
Groupie Joined: 08 May 2014 Location: Greenville, SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 41 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Important - check this every time you set up Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 10:52am |
jmsokol, that was you in the video? What a great segment. I subscribed after watching it on youtube. Thanks techntrek for posting, I ordered the Fluke 1AC today that you recommended. I am still a little shy about testing it on the outlet itself, even though I know it is plastic and won't conduct. I'll have to work my courage up once it gets here. Sticking anything in an outlet except a plug goes against everything my mother told me as a child!
|
|
jmsokol
Groupie Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: Maryland Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 11:03am |
Yes, that's me in the video. I'm also supposed to be doing some newspaper interviews this week and perhaps a national news piece. As far as poking a NCVT into an outlet to check for polarity, those tester are rated for up to 1,000 volts, so not to worry. I've done it many thousands of times and have complete confidence in using a NCVT that way. Also, I'll be posting an article about selecting NCVTs for this usage in next week's RVtravel newsletter. It's basically an excerpt from my new eBook No~Shock~Zone RV Electrical Safety. Please pass the book ink and article info onto everyone you know with an RV. We certainly don't want to see another preventable tragedy occur. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L2DWBD8 |
|
mike@noshockzone.org
www.noshockzone.org |
|
techntrek
Admin Group - pHp Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Location: MD Online Status: Offline Posts: 9059 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 12:11am |
I pulled out my testers tonight while setting up camp (near Great Sand Dunes in CO) and discovered that there is no ground. Same for a dozen other sites (all empty so it was easy to check). I made it down to the site next to the next camper a half-dozen sites away and was still getting a missing ground reading, so I asked them if I could check their site. Happily they were ok, probably on a different panel. I showed them the outlet tester and VoltAlert and why they are necessary. They are considering a pod so they may show up here at some point.
Anyway, this is only the 2nd campground with hookups on this trip and already I've found an issue...
|
|
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
|
|
jmsokol
Groupie Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: Maryland Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 6:40am |
Great work. And that's why I tell everyone to test every hookup every time. You just don't know if something has gone wrong with campsite power either through lack of maintenance or incompetent wiring. It's important to realize that an open ground on a power outlet is likely what caused the death of the 3-year-old boy in Amboy, IL last week. I've talked to the sheriff that investigated the accident, and their electrician confirmed the open ground. I'm trying to nail down more information and have a call into the electrician himself. Remember, you don't need a secondary fault to electrify the skin of an RV if your EGC/Ground has opened up. There's sufficient normal leakage from your RV's appliances and electrical system to generally bias the skin of your RV to around 60 volts and several mA of current, perhaps even 10 mA or more. That's enough to kill a small child or old adult with a weak heart. And if there's an additional line-to-chassis fault current from something like a pin-hole leak in a hot water heater element or water in a junction box, then your hot-skin voltage source and be a few amperes. That's enough to kill anybody. And this allows me to introduce yet another concept to you all, something I call a "Reflected Hot Skin". There's a high probability that this particular group of campsites have their EGC Grounds connected together via daisy chaining, but that the final run of the ground wire back to the main service panel has failed for some reason. So now you have perhaps a dozen campsites with their "grounds" connected together, but there's no connection back to the service panel's neutral-ground-earth bonding point. This allows a line-to-chassis fault in one RV to not only hot-skin energize its own chassis, it WILL cause hot-skin voltage on ALL other RV's connected to the same loop. And while a voltage monitoring system should alert you of the fact that your ground is compromised, it can't disconnect you from a now energized safety ground wire feeding your RV skin with voltage. This explains why some of my readers claim they had no hot-skin voltage when they initially plugged into a campsite, but the next day they were feeling a shock. But, of course, a NCVT will find the now electrified RV skin and chassis. It's cheap insurance that can save your life. Of course, if you campsite pedestal is properly "grounded" then there's zero possibility of some of RV electrifying your own RV chassis/skin. That's why it's important to test every time before plugging into shore power. As always, contact me if you've found anything suspicious and I'll help you figure it out. |
|
mike@noshockzone.org
www.noshockzone.org |
|
Bulldogpod
Groupie Joined: 08 May 2014 Location: Greenville, SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 41 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 7:14am |
Will my fluke pen be enough for a good check at my site? Do I need to buy a voltmeter and polarity tester too? I hadn't done that, frankly, because I am most definitely NOT an electrician, and don't know how to use that equipment properly. But if it keeps my family safe, I will learn.
|
|
Leo B
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 13 Jan 2012 Location: Lyndonville, VT Online Status: Offline Posts: 4508 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 7:28am |
I agree with Bulldogpod. Is there a safe method for non-electricians?
|
|
Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |
|
jmsokol
Groupie Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: Maryland Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 8:05am |
Ideally, you'll have a digital voltmeter, a 3-light outlet tester, and a Non Contact Voltage Tester. You can buy the full set of Klein meters at Home Depot for $35. http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Electrical-Test-Meters/Klein-Tools/N-5yc1vZboffZ3xg While I use lot of Fluke gear on my test bench (I'm a EE), I find that the Klein gear is a good second choice for consumers and available at any Home Depot. However, while you don't need to be an electrician to test safely, you DO need to understand electricity. I recommend that everyone with an RV purchase a copy of my eBook No~Shock~Zone RV Electrical Safety. It's the best $10 you'll spend this year. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L2DWBD8 So please pass this info on to everyone you know with an RV. I'm also finishing the print version of this book which should be available in a few weeks. In the meantime, you can download and read the Amazon/Kindle version on any tablet, iPad or computer using a free kindle reader. I'm now working on a set of videos for RVtravel.com that will detail how to safely test a campground pedestal for correct power. For that I'm building a failed-pedestal simulator that will allow me to create all sort of mis-wiring conditions and demonstrate how to test for them. So stay tuned. You can also help by suggesting to your rpod dealer and Forest River that they support my No~Shock~Zone articles and videos. There's only so many campers I can reach one forum at a time, but if Forest River would get behind this effort, then a lot more lives would saved. |
|
mike@noshockzone.org
www.noshockzone.org |
|
kymooses
Senior Member Joined: 01 Aug 2010 Location: Louisville, Ky Online Status: Offline Posts: 1807 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 9:42am |
So in this case Tech, what did you do, did you contact the campground, did they send someone out to fix all of it? Did you yourself not hook up power at all at this campground at all? |
|
techntrek
Admin Group - pHp Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Location: MD Online Status: Offline Posts: 9059 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 12:42am |
For non-techies, at the very least get the plug-in tester and the non-contact tester (the items to the right and bottom in the picture Mike posted above). It literally takes 60 seconds to use both and they don't require any interpretation. With the ones I have I should get a green light on the plug-in tester and no light (or beeping) from the non-contact tester. If I don't get a green light there is a chart right on the tester which tells me what the lights mean. Using a voltmeter gets a little more technical, interpreting numbers, etc.
kymooses, I spoke with the campground owner the next morning and explained that she had a very dangerous situation and needed to call her electrician immediately. That was the soonest I could tell anyone since the office closed before I discovered the problem. In this case I knew I didn't have an immediate problem since the VoltAlert was negative (no electrified chassis), and we were already set up, so I stayed hooked up long enough to charge some things. Since we didn't need to run A/C we didn't need it after that, and if we did I would have moved to one of the sites with a good connection. They had plenty of open sites so it wouldn't have been a problem.
|
|
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
|
|
Bulldogpod
Groupie Joined: 08 May 2014 Location: Greenville, SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 41 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 8:01am |
Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the help.
|
|
Post Reply | Page <1 89101112 22> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |