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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: tow vehicle question
    Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 12:42pm
I think the reason you won't find Challenger SRT's pulling campers is more due to the frame not being able to take the stress.

I believe I said above that both are important. Horsepower without adequate torque means no towing as one would not be able to get started. Torque without horsepower means one would go at a snail's pace, but be able to haul a lot. Having both means being able to start and also able to get to and maintain highway speeds. It does not take 700 hp or 1,850 lb/ft torque to tow an R-Pod at 60 mpg. As long as one has adequate amounts of both, one can tow an R-Pod quite nicely. My Escape can do that. I would not go with anything less though. The turbocharged 2L engine is adequate. I have not tested it on really hard climbs though. This summer should prove more a challenge as we will be going through some of the more mountainous sections of the northeast. The northwest will have to wait a bit.
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Posts: 270 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by StephenH

I think the reason you won't find Challenger SRT's pulling campers is more due to the frame not being able to take the stress.

I believe I said above that both are important. Horsepower without adequate torque means no towing as one would not be able to get started. Torque without horsepower means one would go at a snail's pace, but be able to haul a lot. Having both means being able to start and also able to get to and maintain highway speeds. It does not take 700 hp or 1,850 lb/ft torque to tow an R-Pod at 60 mpg. As long as one has adequate amounts of both, one can tow an R-Pod quite nicely. My Escape can do that. I would not go with anything less though. The turbocharged 2L engine is adequate. I have not tested it on really hard climbs though. This summer should prove more a challenge as we will be going through some of the more mountainous sections of the northeast. The northwest will have to wait a bit.

Does your Turbo have a boost gauge?  If it does keep a close eye on it, so you know how often and long it kicks in. If you don't have a boost gauge, most 4-Cyl engines kick in after 2k rpm.  If you are spending more time in boost mode than not, and I assume like most Turbos requires premium octane gas, you probably are actually burning more dollar for dollar than a low octane V-6.  Either way, change your oil religiously every 3k and use synthetic; I went with the factory 7k and stock oil, but the thing blew out at 13k miles. While I drove very "sporty", I never towed or loaded the thing in any way. It was under warranty, and the dealer sheepishly admitted it was one of the few engines that should call out 3k in the manual because the engine runs too hot.  It was the only turbo I ever owned, and for a dozen reasons never will again. Why am I saying all this? My CX-7 was simply a 2.3L sport tuned Japanese built version of the Escape, they shared many common parts, because Mazda was in partnership with Ford up until the market crash.
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 1:53pm
It does not have a boost gauge. However, I got an OBDII scanner and use the Torque app, so I can see what is happening. I appreciate the advice about the oil changes. Ford does indeed call for use of premium while towing. The hp and torque ratings are based on premium use. 
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Posts: 193 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 2:43pm
I'm not disagreeing with anyone about hp vs torque.  Both are important factors.  But based on factory tow ratings and my own personal experience, it's the lb/ft torque number that's more important when it comes to towing. My current tow vehicle, a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz turbo diesel, puts out a rather lackluster 215 horsepower.  But it achieves 376 lb/ft torque, giving it a factory-rated 7,400 lbs. tow capacity.

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Posts: 270 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 2:51pm
There is an old saying: "Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races."

If someone watches car ads closely, when a new generation comes out they usually proclaim "Totally redesigned, now with an additional 10 horsepower!".  It is a marketing gimmick, those Horsepower gains have negligible increases in torque.

Usually only truck ads mention Torque specifically.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 5:10pm
There is an old drag racer saying:

"Torque gets you off the line(launches). Horsepower wins the race."

Just saying...you know....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Patriot Dave

[QUOTE=David] [QUOTE=Patriot Dave]

Thanks for the reply.
Well at least i know what to expect. I will be looking at possible replacements and choose something by the end of summer.
The Ranger has 145,000 on it so It will be time anyway.


Really, you are in a great position and your plan is also great. You'll get enough "road time" to determine, first hand, what 207 ponies will do for you. You'll have a good idea of what you need at the end of the season. I made it thru one season with the GMC Canyon and bought a 5.3L Silverado, that November.

I feel sorry for whoever bought that Canyon.
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Posts: 6128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by David

Originally posted by Patriot Dave

[QUOTE=David] [QUOTE=Patriot Dave]

Thanks for the reply.
Well at least i know what to expect. I will be looking at possible replacements and choose something by the end of summer.
The Ranger has 145,000 on it so It will be time anyway.


Really, you are in a great position and your plan is also great. You'll get enough "road time" to determine, first hand, what 207 ponies will do for you. You'll have a good idea of what you need at the end of the season. I made it thru one season with the GMC Canyon and bought a 5.3L Silverado, that November.

I feel sorry for whoever bought that Canyon.


I feel sorry for anyone who buys a Canyon.. but, hey, that's just me. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by furpod


Originally posted by David

Originally posted by Patriot Dave

[QUOTE=David] [QUOTE=Patriot Dave]

Thanks for the reply.
Well at least i know what to expect. I will be looking at possible replacements and choose something by the end of summer.
The Ranger has 145,000 on it so It will be time anyway.


Really, you are in a great position and your plan is also great. You'll get enough "road time" to determine, first hand, what 207 ponies will do for you. You'll have a good idea of what you need at the end of the season. I made it thru one season with the GMC Canyon and bought a 5.3L Silverado, that November.

I feel sorry for whoever bought that Canyon.
I feel sorry for anyone who buys a Canyon.. but, hey, that's just me. Tongue





You do have me curious about the Ford turbo mentioned. I'll have to research that.
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Posts: 270 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by David

There is an old drag racer saying:

"Torque gets you off the line(launches). Horsepower wins the race."

Just saying...you know....

The one I heard was from an old loop racer, but that was during an argument about people tricking themselves into believing a 4-cyl with the same HP as V-6 are going to get the same street performance for all around sporty driving...then again, maybe I was baked. The point I was actually getting at is that humans are in general easily manipulated media puppets, that is why ads for cars always emphasize horsepower (think of how every beer ad in the 1980's had blonde girls in bikinis). People always savor the shill of "new and improved!", to think they need it to keep up with the Jonses. The only car ads that emphasize torque are usually muscle cars. It is relatively easy for car companies to squeeze a few HP out of a I-4 every few years, If Torque was as easy to increase in the agrarian sounding 4-CYL then the ads would show a lot more clinically depressed suburban commuter dads doing smoking launches at stoplights.
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