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ouR escaPOD mods

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StephenH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ouR escaPOD mods
    Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Yeah a dc/dc converter is the way to go. Li batteries have a much narrower charging voltage window than lead acid batts so need a more stable voltage to charge properly. The one you're getting should work fine. Note that it needs a terminal to be brought to 12V to turn on. That is normally connected to your ignition so if you ever leave your ignition on with the engine off you could discharge your start battery pretty quickly. I'd be tempted to put a switch under my dash in that line so I could turn the dc dc converter on and off manually if I wanted to. 
That is what I may need to do. The Frontier seems to cut off power to the 7-way connector when the engine is off and the lights time-out. If so, I may be able to tap into that for the power signal. Otherwise, I will have to figure out where I can place a switch for this purpose. Most of the wiring diagrams I have seen assume the unit will be installed in a motor home, not a trailer. Putting it in the RPod adds complexity to the installation, but I'll figure out something. As for the battery, I will be checking the specs. I put in heavy enough wiring to handle the 100A rating of the battery. Here are some quick specs from the Amazon listing:

Battery Specifications

  • Nominal Voltage: 12.8v
  • Charging Voltage: 14.4±0.2v
  • Rated Capacity : 100Ah (0.2C, 25°C)
  • Terminal Type: F12/ M8
  • Dimensions (L x W x H): 13 x 6.8 x 8.4 (H + Terminal: 9.3) Inch
  • Weight: 22.6lbs
  • Max. Continue Discharge Current: 70A
  • Max. Permanent Discharge Current: 100A 10Sec.
  • Max. Continue Charge Current: 50A
  • Operating Temperature: Discharging: -4°F to 140°F; Charging: 32°F to 140°F

StephenH
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ouR escaPOD mods
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 2:41pm
Those specs say that you should never pull more the 70A from the battery continuously or 100A for 10 secs. They don't say that the battery is self limiting to that, I don't think it is. So, if you short that battery out it can produce hundreds of amps, just like a lead acid batt, maybe more. Bad for the battery and bad for your system wiring. I'd highly suggest adding a bolt on fuse (60A should work if your charger is 50A) at the + battery terminal. Shouldn't have the problem your cb had but carry a spare like you would for any other fuse. 

The condition I'd be worried about is if I shut off the engine and then I or someone turned the ignition back  on and accidentally left it on, I wouldn't want the dc/dc to be on. With one lead acid battery connected in parallel to another its not a big deal if that happens, they will slowly come down together, but if your trailer batt is not fully charged the dc/dc will happily try to send 20A to your trailer battery until your start batt is dead. If your TV cuts off 12V to the trailer under that condition you could just run +12V from the 7 way connector to both the power terminal and the control terminal. If its always part of your camp setup checklist to disconnect the 7 way then it would only be a problem during a rest or restaurant stop (assuming we can get back to eating at restaurants again someday). Embarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 3:34pm
Thanks. The 60A breaker next to the battery was the one that went bad. I'm thinking a fuse might work better as I have a separate cut-off switch already and won't ever use the breaker for that purpose anyway.

Edit: Looking at the various ones on Amazon and knowing the wire I put in is capable of the 100A, I opted for an 80A circuit breaker. This one has a different design, so I hope it will work better than the 60A one that failed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 6:51am
Did your previous breaker tend to trip when you first connected your charger? High inrush currents could be the problem. those are typical with devices like chargers (ones with large magnetic coils and/or large capacitors in them). A breaker with a longer time delay before tripping would help with that. That would typically be described as a "thermal" breaker as opposed to a "magnetic" or "thermal/magnetic" breaker with a short time delay that will trip very quickly rather than ride out an inrush current for a few seconds. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 4:38pm
No, it was not tripping immediately. Once it started tripping though, the intervals between reset and tripping were growing shorter and with lower amperage readings on my meter. That is why I concluded that the breaker was a piece of junk.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by StephenH

No, it was not tripping immediately. Once it started tripping though, the intervals between reset and tripping were growing shorter and with lower amperage readings on my meter. That is why I concluded that the breaker was a piece of junk.

Yep I agree. Hope the replacement works better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 9:44pm
The replacement arrived and is installed. I ordered this one:

As for recent mods, I installed a Renogy DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger. The model is DCC1212-20. It is a 20A charger, which should be sufficient to charge the battery while towing without putting too much strain on the TV's alternator. Unfortunately, I found that one can't simply tap into the RPod's electric supply to run it. It ends up using the battery instead of the TV's power. Since there is no such thing as a free lunch or perpetual motion, it just would not work so it is installed but currently not connected. I'll post pictures once everything is done. I purchased the charger direct from Renogy. I took advantage of the recent sale and saved some money on the purchase.

What I am working on is a dedicated power circuit. I had previously purchased some AWG6 THHN cable which I ended up not using. Today I ran it from the engine compartment of the Frontier to the back bumper. After I uninstalled the other one, I noticed that it was working differently, like something inside shook loose. The lever is moving farther and it now has a definitive snap when tripping or resetting were before it seemed a little mushy. However, the new one is in and I am not going to install the old one in that circuit again. It may get repurposed for this project, but I am not fully decided on that. The parts I am waiting on are a 2-pole socket with the bumper mounting plate and a waterproofing boot for the Frontier. For the RPod, I ordered a 2-pole plug. These were ordered from eTrailer.


To make it work, I ordered a Battery Isolator Relay. This will sit under the hood of the Frontier and it will only provide power while the engine is running. I opted for this type over the voltage sensitive type because I read that those don't work well for LiFePO4 batteries because the Li battery's voltage prevents the start battery voltage from dropping to the point where the charger cuts off. Since this works with a relay and is merely "clever" instead of "smart" it should work better as once the engine is shut off, the relay should open and power to the RPod should be disconnected. "Smart" devices are not always suitable. This is one of those cases.

Since the maximum draw of the DC to DC charger would be about 30A, this should be more than sufficient. Once these arrive, I will get them installed. The Frontier will be relatively easy. For the RPod, I have to figure out how to run conductors from the compartment where the battery and charger are installed.

Inside the compartment I modified and where the battery sits, some of the floor is cut away for the water lines to cross from the water heater side to get to the bath. I am thinking of drilling a hole there just big enough for the wires and then once I run them, sealing the opening with some expanding foam since it looks like that is what the factory did for items penetrating the bottom of the RPod. Would this be an acceptable way to do this? I am thinking that I only need to run one conductor though the hole for the power side. The negative can be connected through the existing connections inside the RPod and then a shorter wire can be used to connect the negative side of the connector through to the TV where a short cable will be used to tie the negative side to the truck frame. According to the chart in the Renogy manual, I should use an 8 AWG wire for up to 16 ft. If it is only 8 ft. needed, then 10 AWG would be acceptable. I'm not sure how much would be needed, so I'll probably just go with AWG6 to be safe.

Well, that about catched up to current status.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2020 at 6:45am
What you have in mind should work. It gets a bit hard to understand circuit design without a schematic so you might have already done this but if not you should install a fuse or circuit breaker at the TV battery before the new relay if you haven't already. That can be rated at 40 or 50A with the devices and wire gauge  you have on your list. I assume you will drive the relay coil from a wire tapped to your ignition switch? You'll still need the battery cb or fuse for the trailer battery as well, since both are current sources both need to be protected. 

Now that you have run a separate trailer connector for 12V power from your TV the other way you could do this would be to run the wire tapped from your ignition to the 12V pin on your 7 way connector which is no longer being used, and then from the trailer side of the 7 way to the on/off switch on your dc/dc converter. That would save you needing to install the isolation relay. 

As far as using the trailer chassis ground that should be fine but do use the same gauge wire to connect to the chassis that you are using coming from your battery, otherwise that piece of wire will become your weak link. 

Regardless of what FR did when they made the trailer I'd be tempted to avoid using spray foam insulation, it holds water whch will splash up against the bottom of the trailer. I would use a waterproof caulk instead. The "proper" way to do it would probably be to use a cable gland fitting mounted to a short piece of pvc conduit which goes up through the floor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2020 at 10:28am
Originally posted by offgrid

What you have in mind should work. It gets a bit hard to understand circuit design without a schematic so you might have already done this but if not you should install a fuse or circuit breaker at the TV battery before the new relay if you haven't already. That can be rated at 40 or 50A with the devices and wire gauge  you have on your list. I assume you will drive the relay coil from a wire tapped to your ignition switch? You'll still need the battery cb or fuse for the trailer battery as well, since both are current sources both need to be protected.
Yes, that is exactly what I am planning. I have purchased a fuse block tap which inserts in place of the regular fuse and has two slots. One takes the original fuse for the circuit and the other is the fuse for the tap circuit. That will connect to the relay coil. I was not exactly sure which side of the relay to put a fuse or breaker on. Thanks for letting me know which side to put it on.

Now that you have run a separate trailer connector for 12V power from your TV the other way you could do this would be to run the wire tapped from your ignition to the 12V pin on your 7 way connector which is no longer being used, and then from the trailer side of the 7 way to the on/off switch on your dc/dc converter. That would save you needing to install the isolation relay.
I am thinking that since the power connector will only be powered when the engine is running anyway, I can just use a wire off that for the D+ connector that tells the charger to turn on. That way, I would not need to mess with the regular circuit at all.

As far as using the trailer chassis ground that should be fine but do use the same gauge wire to connect to the chassis that you are using coming from your battery, otherwise that piece of wire will become your weak link.
My feelings also. I am planning on using 6 gauge wire for both the power feed as well as the ground connection though the new connector. The charger manual has recommendations. For the wire to the house battery, 12AWG would be okay since it is only a couple of feet long. I have it wired with 10AWG. The starter battery is where I am concentrating on the heavier gauge wire. 

Regardless of what FR did when they made the trailer I'd be tempted to avoid using spray foam insulation, it holds water which will splash up against the bottom of the trailer. I would use a waterproof caulk instead. The "proper" way to do it would probably be to use a cable gland fitting mounted to a short piece of pvc conduit which goes up through the floor. 
Thank you. I think I have some suitable PVC conduit in my tool shed. Do you have a suggestion for the cable gland?
StephenH
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ouR escaPOD mods
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2020 at 11:25am
Re the wire gauge for the negative conductor, as with the positive it needs to have an ampacity higher than the rating of the cb that you're using for that circuit. So if that's say a 60A breaker it would need to be 6AWG even it its short. 

Re the cable gland it of course depends on the wire size and the conduit dia. But something like this:


You could remove the locknut from the gland and thread it onto a female npt to conduit slip fitting, something like this:


Then glue the slip fitting to your conduit and glue the assemby into a hole drilled in the trailer floor. 

On the wiring, I'm a bit lost again without a schematic. Here's roughly what I think you're planning, can you confirm, modify, or add as needed? 



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