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Topic ClosedShopping for New Tow Vehicle
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Shopping for New Tow Vehicle
    Posted: 15 Oct 2016 at 2:18pm
Make mine root beer, and I'll join you. We may be heading down to Florida in November. That is still not certain though.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
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CharlieM View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Location: N. Colorado
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Posts: 1797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2016 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by StephenH

Thanks. This is good information to know. The math does not quite work as if there is a 0 distance, it would generate a "divide by 0" error. However, the point is clear that closer the result is to the wheelbase, the better.

The math is pretty good in the limit as you approach zero and infinity is a perfectly good mathematical concept. It's just that calculators can't handle it. However, it's probably impossible to achieve zero considering it's a three dimensional distance and you also have to consider the tire/road interface which will introduce slippage as forces increase. All that said, simply invert the fraction and drive it to zero. Same result and same guidance. Minimize ball to rear axle distance, maximize TV wheelbase, sat down, have a Bud, and Camp On Thumbs Up
Charlie
Northern Colorado
OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD
PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD
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flyfishingphil View Drop Down
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Posts: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2016 at 11:11am
Had the chance to talk to several people with the new Dodge 1500 Eco diesel. The best one had driven from Texas to Oregon towing a trailer that showed just over 2900 pounds axle weight on a set of scales. He said he cruised at highway speeds, had come over thru Montana and his trip MPG had been running near 20. Most of the others reported about the same and doing over 27 running empty. (One with a heavy trailer reported about 14 mpg.)

Just something to look into and think about.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2015
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 10:49am
Thanks. This is good information to know. The math does not quite work as if there is a 0 distance, it would generate a "divide by 0" error. However, the point is clear that closer the result is to the wheelbase, the better.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
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CharlieM View Drop Down
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Posts: 1797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 3:22pm
The operative factor here is the ratio of vehicle wheelbase divided by hitch ball distance to the rear axle.  If D is the distance from the ball to the rear axle, this ratio is WB/D. The larger this ratio the less steering by the trailer and the less sway. As D approaches zero the ratio gets very large like on a fifth wheel or tractor/trailer rig. 
Charlie
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OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD
PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD
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john in idaho View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 1:02pm
Now that you mention it - I noticed a little sway when I put a longer stinger on the ball so I could open the tailgate.  I hadn't noticed it before, but then the trailer was fairly new then.  I still plan to put an Andersen hitch on this winter.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Rustler

Your observation brings up a good point. While overall wheelbase is important, the distance between tow ball and tow vehicle real wheels is a factor. The smaller distance tow ball to TV rear wheels the less leverage the trailer has to induce sway. Some of the SUVs have the rear wheels set relatively far back toward the tow ball, which is a good thing.

That is what I was saying also. For my Escape, the distance between the rear axle and the tow ball is about 3'. On larger vehicles, that distance might be more than twice the distance with the corresponding increase in leverage. That is why I feel quite safe and why I have not experienced any significant sway over about 10,000 miles of towing with the Escape. I feel a gentle nudge when passed by tractor trailers, but nothing significant. For me, it is a good thing to feel it as I had a stroke which took away part of my peripheral vision on the left. The nudge lets me know something is there and to check my mirrors again. Smile
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
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Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
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Rustler View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 May 2016
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Posts: 100 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 3:24am
Originally posted by techntrek

Originally posted by StephenH

Every time I see the "longer wheelbase is better" argument, I keep thinking about tractor-trailers. They are the exact opposite and yet seem to work okay. I think that having proper tongue weight and proper equalization and sway control is more important than wheelbase in towing stability and resistance to sway.

A tractor's wheelbase is in the neighborhood of 200-280 inches (with big sleeper cabs).  My Suburban is fairly long for a non-commercial vehicle at 130 inches but the biggest pickups are over 230 inches.

5th wheels put the pivot point directly over the axle so sway is impossible.  See my discussion on this in my signature link.

Your observation brings up a good point. While overall wheelbase is important, the distance between tow ball and tow vehicle real wheels is a factor. The smaller distance tow ball to TV rear wheels the less leverage the trailer has to induce sway. Some of the SUVs have the rear wheels set relatively far back toward the tow ball, which is a good thing.
Russ
2009 Toyota RAV4
V6 w/ tow package
2016 Rpod 171 HRE
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CampCat View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Feb 2016
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Posts: 38 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:37pm
It's TFL truck, on YouTube. Very informative and entertaining. 
Patrick&Deanna,
Scion xB, Clark Vertex Hammock "PuppypPod", crosswind kayak
Starting from scratch😄
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Joined: 04 Feb 2016
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Posts: 38 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:36pm
I like to review these guys. They have many posts, on YouTube, on numerous TVs. 
https://youtu.be/0uCMJL7vOmo
Patrick&Deanna,
Scion xB, Clark Vertex Hammock "PuppypPod", crosswind kayak
Starting from scratch😄
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