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JR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Experiment
    Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 10:01am
OG thanks for the reply, I am not an engineer but I didn't think that's the way it works but using Command velcro strips one in each corner seems to work well for me and I must say there is quite a bit of "overkill" on the weight limitations of each strip when I hang something up.  My method seems to be working for us.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by lostagain

I think that an experiment should be set up using a section of wall from an rPod in which each method mentioned by members is tested to see which is strongest.  The test could use 3 applications of lateral force:  one sudden, one for a sustained period of time, and one that simulates repeated applications of lateral force as in bouncing down the road, with, as OG suggests, 5 actual load tests for each fastening method to compute averages.

To make it interesting, the members of the board could place bets on which method s/he feels will win with the money pooled.  The winner(s) would be those who selected the strongest fastening method would win the pot.  Big smile


I'm good except you don't need to do the duration test portion, that data is available. Its like this for wood:

10 years 1.0
2 months 1.15
1 week: 1.25
10 minutes: 1.6
Impact 2.0

Meaning that wood can take 2x the impact load that it can a 10 year occupancy load. 

The 10 minute load is typically used for peak wind and earthquake loads for buildings but our rolling earthquake-mobiles get a lot more than 10 minutes of "earthquakes". Probably the 1 week duration would be more appropriate for us.  

So probably the best thing would be to apply the test loads for 10 minutes to each sample screw, average those loads, divide that by 1.6/1.25=1.28 and call that the max bump load rating. Since the bump loads are about 2gs that means that a factor of about 2.56 over the actual weight on the screw should probably be used. 

There is also the typical engineering factor of safety added on top of that. I just did a quick look for safety factor for wood fasteners and found 6x is typical for pullout loads and 1.6 to 2 for lateral loads because of variability, humidity, and aging, 

Using the 1.6 number I get an overall multiplier of 2.56 x 1.6 - 4.1, call it 4, or an allowable 1/4 of the average lateral test load at failure. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 11:24am
Originally posted by JR

OG thanks for the reply, I am not an engineer but I didn't think that's the way it works but using Command velcro strips one in each corner seems to work well for me and I must say there is quite a bit of "overkill" on the weight limitations of each strip when I hang something up.  My method seems to be working for us.

The reason I prefer fasteners to adhesives is the long term failure risk of adhesives. They can be great right after you attach things but a few months later they can fail due to changes in temp and humidity. Fastener strength varies with environmental conditions too but not nearly as much and that is taken into account in the safety factor. 

If you want to use the adhesive method that's fine, I just personally have had those strips fail on me so I don't trust them in the long run. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 11:30am
Ok with me to eliminate the duration part of the test.  I was just trying to cover all the possibilities, like the picture that had been hanging on the wall for a year and suddenly falls off in the night.  But if that isn't necessary, it's fine with me.  Let the tests begin and the bets placed!

Personally, I think my method of a combination of a coarsely threaded short screw with a patch of 3M double sided extra strong foam tape will win the contest, but I have been wrong so many times in my life ......  Suffice it to say, I don't patronize our fine casinos here in Dayton, NV.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 1:39pm
I was talking about wood fasteners. Those aren't subject to near as much variation as adhesives are, so you can test them quickly. 

If you're going to allow adhesives as part of the test then a year probably is about right and a you'd have to to test for all sorts of humidity and temp conditions, surface prep variation, etc. For solar modules, which are of course held together by adhesives, you do heat soak, thermal cycle and humidity freeze testing, really nasty. You need a test chamber and months of testing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:10pm
Love it!  I'm with OG.

For corroboration, We used a factor of safety of 4 for wood poles carrying transmission lines.  The poles were Southern yellow Pine, one of the strongest woods. 

Generally, bumps should be considered impact loads and doubled for equivalent weight. 

Please retest with your screw almost screwed all the way in and loaded parallel to the wood panel (90 deg/in shear).  I'll bet the result is about twice the 37 lbs you got. 

Then, your load rating should be that divided by 4 for safety and divided again by 2 for impact.  Let's guess and call it 10 lbs.  *I* would allow double that for 2 screws on the top row if they are at the same "elevation", but only allow half that for screws in an additional row (5 lbs/screw).  There is a shear strength and buckling load limit for the panel, so don't go hanging propane bottles on your walls.  Big smile  I also wouldn't place the screws closer than about 4" apart, as the stresses from one overlap and add to the stress from the other.  Admittedly, 4" is a guestimate without further data. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by offgrid


The reason I prefer fasteners to adhesives is the long term failure risk of adhesives. They can be great right after you attach things but a few months later they can fail due to changes in temp and humidity. Fastener strength varies with environmental conditions too but not nearly as much and that is taken into account in the safety factor. 

If you want to use the adhesive method that's fine, I just personally have had those strips fail on me so I don't trust them in the long run. 


Shut up in the hot sun, my pod got hot enough for one of my Command Strips to come loose.  It was holding a picture.  The others stayed on without a load.  I'd expect they will all work fine, if the temps are controlled. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Colt

Love it!  I'm with OG.

For corroboration, We used a factor of safety of 4 for wood poles carrying transmission lines.  The poles were Southern yellow Pine, one of the strongest woods. 

Generally, bumps should be considered impact loads and doubled for equivalent weight. 

Please retest with your screw almost screwed all the way in and loaded parallel to the wood panel (90 deg/in shear).  I'll bet the result is about twice the 37 lbs you got. 

Then, your load rating should be that divided by 4 for safety and divided again by 2 for impact.  Let's guess and call it 10 lbs.  *I* would allow double that for 2 screws on the top row if they are at the same "elevation", but only allow half that for screws in an additional row (5 lbs/screw).  There is a shear strength and buckling load limit for the panel, so don't go hanging propane bottles on your walls.  Big smile  I also wouldn't place the screws closer than about 4" apart, as the stresses from one overlap and add to the stress from the other.  Admittedly, 4" is a guestimate without further data. 

+1. We engineers are often accused of being a conservative bunch, but generally our customers aren't happy with us when our designs fail. You might go a long time without a failure with lower safety factors, but statistics being what they are it could happen tomorrow. 
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