Freeze

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   2021-195While on a single overnight in Reno, NV we experienced a freeze of something in the trailer. We had followed almost every piece of advice other than putting a small heater near the water pump and using skirting to include I had wrapped all exposed pipping, installed insulation in the storage compartment and around the water works enclosure, used a space heater in addition to the furnace, used only the internal freshwater tank, kept the water heater on, and kept the cupboard doors open. The temperature got down into the teens for a few hours and was below freezing for the whole time there, and when we woke up we had no water flow and could not hear the water pump at all. I checked the enclosure and all lines and the pump did not appear to be frozen and I got water flow from the freshwater tank drain. I just couldn’t figure out what had frozen. Later that day after reaching an area above freezing we checked again and had restored flow throughout the trailer and no apparent leaks anywhere. Any ideas as to what it could have been and any suggestions on preventing this again? Note: we had done a previous multiple night outing in freezing temperatures but used a heated hose hooked up to a well insulated water supply and had completely drained the freshwater tank with not a single problem. We figured based on multiple forum mentions and YouTube videos that a single night wouldn’t have caused this kind of freeze; I guess we were wrong. 

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wluvw1&2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 19 Jul 2020 Location: Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Topic: Freeze Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 1:12am
	2021-195 While on a single overnight in Reno, NV we experienced a freeze of something in the trailer. We had followed almost every piece of advice other than putting a small heater near the water pump and using skirting to include I had wrapped all exposed pipping, installed insulation in the storage compartment and around the water works enclosure, used a space heater in addition to the furnace, used only the internal freshwater tank, kept the water heater on, and kept the cupboard doors open. The temperature got down into the teens for a few hours and was below freezing for the whole time there, and when we woke up we had no water flow and could not hear the water pump at all. I checked the enclosure and all lines and the pump did not appear to be frozen and I got water flow from the freshwater tank drain. I just couldn’t figure out what had frozen. Later that day after reaching an area above freezing we checked again and had restored flow throughout the trailer and no apparent leaks anywhere. Any ideas as to what it could have been and any suggestions on preventing this again? Note: we had done a previous multiple night outing in freezing temperatures but used a heated hose hooked up to a well insulated water supply and had completely drained the freshwater tank with not a single problem. We figured based on multiple forum mentions and YouTube videos that a single night wouldn’t have caused this kind of freeze; I guess we were wrong.

mdballou Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 16 Mar 2019 Location: OH Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 4:08am
	Have not tried what you did, but from what you have listed, tank did not freeze. So water draw line from tank to pump or pump is where it would have frozen. Getting in the teens, would not take much. Any small part that was not heated?

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 7:09am
	If you couldn’t hear the pump running it’s highly likely that and/or the pump feed like is what froze. Run the pump and check very carefully there for leaks. Not sure where you are getting the advice you’re following but insulating the exposed pump feed line isn’t going to do much for temps that low. For insulation to work you have to have something that’s warm to start with. You can accomplish that a couple if ways. If you have shore power you can add electric heat cable taped along the supply line and then insulate that. The cable I’ve used had a built in thermostat so it doesn’t waste electricity. If you don’t have shore power then you can circulate water through it to keep it warm. If you only expect a night or two then you can just allow one of you faucets to drip so the pump runs every few minutes to bring slightly warmer water into the lines from the tank. For a more robust solution that doesn’t waste water you can recirculate hot water from the water heater through the system. A solenoid valve connecting the hot to the cold lines at the end of the plumbing run and another one connecting one of the cold low point drains back to the water tank will circulate water through the whole system. You’ll need a thermostat measuring the temp at the pump feed line to activate the solenoids. You will need to insulate the tank so you’re not using too much propane. And you’ll need to add cutoff valves and drain the outside shower. A couple of our members have done versions of this method. Look up Texman’s posts using the advanced search. None of this will help with the black and gray tanks, the drain lines from which will eventually freeze too. Either pour a lot of rv antifreeze in those or drain them immediately after use.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

wluvw1&2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 19 Jul 2020 Location: Oregon Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 4:11pm
	Thanks for the information. I did check for leaks after everything started flowing again and we are good there. The leaving the faucets dripping was the first thing we remembered we should’ve done, but didn’t really want to hear the pump running under the bed all night. Wrapping pipes has always been good advice giving them even one layer of protection helps some, but will definitely add a heat source for anytime we expect super low temps or long duration below freezing from now on.

Tars Tarkas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1446	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 6:19pm
	I've seen and given advice that overnight temps in the 20s are okay as long as you get above freezing the next day. Temps in the teens with no above freezing relief is asking for trouble. Offgrid made some good suggestions, but under those circumstance you need to go to extremes or just winterize. You can get lucky, as you did. Apparently you had something freeze but not so thoroughly that the ice expanded to the point of breaking something. You're skating too close to the edge to be sure of getting away unscathed. TT
	2010 176 FJ Cruiser

Pete Brayton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Location: Parker, CO Online Status: Offline Posts: 124	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 6:33pm
	Probably a dumb question but, what about the low point water drains? Maybe an outside shower?
	2021 Rpod 196 2013 Ford 150 V8

Colt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 383	Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 9:27pm
	I'm not sure where the pump and plumbing is in a 195, but since it is 12v, you could tap into that line, or maybe another and install an incandescent bulb in a reflector with an accessible switch. It could be a low watt space heater pointed at the places that are vulnerable. You could also attach motorcycle grip heaters to the water pump. They are 12v and self-adhesive with 2 or 3 power levels, typically under 30 watts.
	John '16 R-Pod 180