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Tow Vehicles - Toyota Goes Turbo

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mjlrpod View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mjlrpod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tow Vehicles - Toyota Goes Turbo
    Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 3:33pm
I just don't get it. There is nothing that will ever compete dollar for dollar, and mile for mile with the combustion engine. Most of the problems caused by c02 are caused by the rest of the world. We are small contributers to the problem. We continuously improve our emissions. I believe EV's are the next giant mistake. But we are blindly lead down this path. I begin my beliefs on power by thinking, How can nature, god, whatever you believe, put SO MUCH oil, and gas on this planet, and intend for it to NOT be used? It makes no sense what's so ever. It would be like people saying "We need to find a replacement for oxygen" (It won't shock when they do). We can make cars even better overnight by converting them to natural gas,. But we choose not to. Instead we want to turn the world upside down to fix things that are not really that bad. The answer is a mix of all of these things, but someone hasn't figured out how to use all these different things, and still keep it expensive enough to keep there billions in profits.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 4:13pm
Here are the top 10 CO2  emitters:  
The following countries are the ten largest emitters of carbon dioxide:
  • China (9.3 GT)
  • United States (4.8 GT)
  • India (2.2 GT)
  • Russia (1.5 GT)
  • Japan (1.1 GT)
  • Germany (0.7 GT)
  • South Korea (0.6 GT)
  • Iran (0.6 GT)

It doesn't look like we're a small player as the second highest in the world, but I could be wrong.  As for intentionality in the presence of petroleum in the world, that is getting pretty far into a religious assertion, that may be better left to another forum.  

Regarding the suggestion that we use natural gas for cars, using any fossil fuels for vehicles, or generating electricity, etc., is the very problem we have.  They all emit CO2, which is a documented greenhouse gas, along with methane and others.  Natural gas poses a particular problem with global heating because not only does its combustion produce CO2, it also puts significant methane into the atmosphere.  To be sure, much of our electricity comes from burning stuff, and that constitutes nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  We urgently need non-CO2 emitting energy sources if we are going to reduce greenhouse gases causing global heating.  

We are in the middle of a move to CT from NV.  There is an ongoing drought in the western half of North America [not to mention Central and South America] and it is only a question of time before the area becomes almost uninhabitable for lack of water and heat.  Rivers here that normally flow year round are dry for the first time in memory.  This drought is exactly what climate scientists said would happen, only worse, and there is no end in sight.  Rather than wait for home prices to collapse when our water runs out, we chose to be among the first of climate refugees from the western U.S.  There will be many more.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:05pm
+1 to lostagain. I was in HI this summer and the real estate market there is overheated with ppl from the western mainland states moving to escape the drought and fires. I was a climate change refugee 2 years ago myself to get away from rising sea levels and more extreme tropical storms in coastal NC. So it's a real clear and present danger. The science is clear and has been for decades, folks can ignore it at their risk.

Re who are the worst emitters, you have to look at per Capita emissions. Obviously, more populous countries are going to produce more CO2. And just because we have been using lots more fossil fuels for much longer than most other countries doesn't give us the right to do that indefinitely. You can't very well tell someone in China or India too bad, we were there first so you have to cut your emissions but we don't. And since CO2 stays
in the atmosphere for centuries, the Chinese and Indians could argue that we have stockpiled our share and need to cut our emissions before they do.

China has 4x the US population but only produces about twice the CO2 we do, so on a per Capita basis they actually contribute about half what we do to the problem.

On a per Capita basis the US is 16th and China is 42nd. Most of the top emitters per Capita are oil producing countries, who are ranking high emitting huge quantities of CO2 producing the oil the rest of the world uses. So it's a global problem. All the finger pointing one way or the other solves nothing.

Re nothing competing with ICE vehicles that's simply not true. The cost of EVs is already on a par with non EVs in many cases, and will be cheaper across the board within the next few years as the learning curve drives the cost down. ICE's are very inefficient (around 30%), and that is due to the basic physics of heat engines so can't ever get significantly better. In comparison, EVs are around 80% efficient. They perform better, have lower maintenance and are more reliable.

I for one won't miss cams, crankshafts, pistons, rods, valves, ignition systems, fuel systems, multi speed transmissions, turbos and all that complex stuff for a second. EVs don't have any of that. And they're fun to drive to boot.

So not only do EVs (even when charged on a "dirty" grid) help us to solve the CO2 emissions problem for transportation (29% of the US total emissions) but they are better vehicles too.

Saying there is all that fossil fuel so we should burn it in our vehicles is like saying that all that lead is there so we should use it in our water pipes. We did until we learned better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by lostagain

How much does a "battery sled" weigh?  Seems to me, if the 1200 lb. Tesla battery is any indication, the battery weight may present some some design challenges.  That's not to say that the challenge cannot be overcome, but as always, what seems an obvious solution at first glance may more complicated than initially believed.  Once again, there is no such thing as a free lunch.


It's roughly speaking 100 watt hours per lb for EV Li batteries presently. So let's say you want 100kwh of storage and that is 1000 lbs. That would roughly double the capacity of a large EV with a 100 kwh battery. Lets assume that range would be 300 miles not towing or 330 watt hours per mile. let's say that load is double towing or 660 wh/mi for a 150 mile range without the trailer batteries and back to 300 miles with the additional batteries in the trailer, not counting their weight.

Without boring everyone with the math, on low rolling resistance trailer tires the 1000 lbs will add about 1kw to the load at 60 mph. That works out to an additional 17 or so wh/mile or about 2.5% addition load and reduced range. So the new range of the rig would drop to around 292 miles.

Executive summary: adding the batteries to the trailer gains range much faster than you lose from the additional weight. Put another way, aerodynamic drag is a much bigger reason towing is so inefficient than weight/rolling resistance is.

I think the bigger issue would probably be getting the energy from the trailer battery to the EV while on the road, since directly connecting them on the DC side isn't practical due to safety concerns and lack of voltage and battery chemistry standards. You could do it via an inverter on the trailer (you'd need about a 20kw inverter to keep up with demand) but you can't very well leave a charging gun hanging off the port on the side of the tow vehicle while youre driving.😱 If you're boondocking you could recharge overnight while parked which might work for some folks.

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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 1:22pm
As EVs become more numerous and popular, I see a wave of innovation coming to make RVs and trailers more aerodynamic. Necessity is the mother of invention, or so I've heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:23pm
+1. It's already started, the Alto 2124 is very aerodynamically clean, apparently driven by Tesla owners wanting increased towing range. Theyve done a good job making use of the tapered front and rear spaces, kinda like v berths on a sailboat, another vehicle that needs to be clean and efficient.

Check out the link I posted. I really like the inboard a/c unit.
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