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Siberian Icebox

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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10975
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 1:21am
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Topic: Siberian Icebox
Posted By: RoadToad
Subject: Siberian Icebox
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 2:00pm
Driving south from Alaska to Texas. We’re in Toad River, BC. Last nite it was -20°F, our propane furnace would run 10-15 minutes- then shut off before reaching thermostatic setting. Anybody know why this might occur? 2015 R179. We’d like a little warmth tonite while passing thru this Siberian Icebox called northern BC. RoadToad <corax50@gmail.com>
No service here- I’ll check mail in a few hours at another wifi hotspot down road.
PS- THANX! In advance to whomever may help us.

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2015 RP179



Replies:
Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 3:42pm
It could be an issue with the thermostat, and it could be an issue with the furnace itself.  Something in the furnace may be overheating and causing it to shut down prematurely.  I wouldn't have the skills needed to test it; you will likely need to take it to an RV repair shop.

Unless you can get it fixed, I would highly recommend that you get a small propane heater that can be run from 1 lb. bottles, 20 lb. tanks, or both.  Mr. Buddy has several models that do this very well and safely.  Just crack open the vent in the bathroom while running it.  You should be able to find this type of heater at any many stores, especially hardware stores.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 4:58pm
+1 - have a backup plan to your on board systems, heat especially. Furnace is a stand alone system, Mr. Buddy with one pound tanks ensures you have heat until you can determine furnace issues. Even minimal heat is good.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: voisj
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 5:30pm
I had my furnace run off and on all night every 10 minutes while boondocking in 12 degree weather. It was a long night. The pod is just not insulated well enough to warm it up and hold it in these temps (-20) for more than 10 minutes. I  finally just turned on the generator at 4am and plugged in my ceramic heater. I bought a small propane heater just in case for next time. Are your tanks all empty or frozen?
cheers John


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http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9426&title=slopod-180-mods-johnsue - SLOPODMODS
John&Sue,SLO,CA
2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost
 


Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 7:01pm
I haven't studied the onboard heater in Pods, so this may not be accurate.  Home systems that I have worked with have a bonnet switch to sense the air temp in the plenum leaving the furnace.  If it gets to hot the furnace shuts down until the temp returns to normal.  The fan runs during this short cycling.  It can happen if the output or return air vents are partially or fully blocked.  In our Pod the heat comes from the furnace and is vented into the Pod from a space under the bed.  This happens to also be a great place to store things.  We have laundry baskets that fit into this space that we use to store our clean clothes.  We make sure that the baskets are removed before we run the furnace.  

-------------
Keith-N-Dar
Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers)
2011 R-Pod 177
2010 Ford F-150


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 8:34pm
For our 179, I purchased a fan that could be run on a 12V adapter or on batteries. https://www.o2-cool.com/FD10002A?page_id=841 - O2-cool is one brand. I had originally purchased a similar RoadPro model that had 3 blades. I found an O2-cool one at my local Staples at a very reasonable price. While it technically runs on 9V (6 D-cell batteries), the 12V adapter I used with my RoadPro works with it and it just runs faster and a little louder. On the D-cell batteries, it is very quiet. I set the fan up at the opening of the recess where the heater is. I put it near the drawers. It pulls the hot air out from under the bed. I have not had any problem with the heater short-cycling.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by StephenH

For our 179, I purchased a fan that could be run on a 12V adapter or on batteries. https://www.o2-cool.com/FD10002A?page_id=841 - O2-cool is one brand. I had originally purchased a similar RoadPro model that had 3 blades. I found an O2-cool one at my local Staples at a very reasonable price. While it technically runs on 9V (6 D-cell batteries), the 12V adapter I used with my RoadPro works with it and it just runs faster and a little louder. On the D-cell batteries, it is very quiet. I set the fan up at the opening of the recess where the heater is. I put it near the drawers. It pulls the hot air out from under the bed. I have not had any problem with the heater short-cycling.

I too suspect that a lack of ventilation and/or a faulty internal thermostat in the furnace is the culprit.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: SteveA
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 10:59pm
Bought this years ago for our Dynamax 36' XL as we boon docked a good deal of the time. Was plenty enough to keep it warm at night down to 30 degrees, haven't used it yet in the Pod but have to believe it will be more than plenty. I plumbed it into the stove feed on our 179. Very quite and extremely efficient.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-57331-Olympian-Wave-3-Catalytic/dp/B000BUV1RK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512363186&sr=8-1&keywords=olympian+heater+wave+3 -



Posted By: Iceworm
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 11:59pm
Roadtoad, good luck with your adventure. You are brave. Last year we towed our 179 up the Alcan in November and it was brutal. About 3000 miles of ice roads from Washington. Temps were a little warmer than what you are experiencing. Very few places to tuck into for the evening. We had retroflexed the windows while in Idaho, but condensation was still an issue. The heater would take a couple hours to get up to temp but then stay fairly comfortable. Heater seemed to run about twice as long as the off cycle. This November we left it and the tow vehicle in Penna. and flew back to Delta Junction Alaska and will fly outside and bring it back in April. Again good luck, and the Lord be with you.


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 3:57pm
At -20F, you don't have enough surface area in a 5 gallon tank to evaporate fast enough to maintain gas flow.

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Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by furpod

At -20F, you don't have enough surface area in a 5 gallon tank to evaporate fast enough to maintain gas flow.

I would hope that anyone planning camping in temperatures regularly below 32F would have dual propane tanks, preferably 40 lbs. instead of 20 lbs.  Even so, if your furnace is running virtually all the time, which I imagine it would be at -20F, you would not even have quite a five day supply of propane if you weren't burning it for anything else.

Few travel trailers are stock built with insulation truly adequate for that kind of weather.  Ice fishing travel trailers are designed for it.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 9:22pm
Another alternative to the heater mentioned above is a Mr. Heater Portable. I would not recommend the Little Buddy because it is so top-heavy that it falls over too easily, especially with the newer 1 lb disposable cylinders which have the plastic base. The base for the Little Buddy isn't tall enough to hold the tank adequately. The portable works well, but one does need to provide some fresh air venting for the Mr. Buddy heaters. It does not take much, only a few square inches. With the Mr. Buddy filter and a hose, one can use a larger tank also. If one is using a distribution post with a larger tank, the Little Buddy could be mounted there and the weight of the larger tank will be adequate to ensure stability. However, that would mean bringing a larger tank inside which might not be desirable. I would think that catalytic heaters would also require venting to prevent CO poisoning.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 10:20pm
For Mr. Heater heaters, look at these.  They both have tip over and low oxygen protection.

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F232025-Portable-California/dp/B002QUZGS8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512879144&sr=8-2&keywords=little+buddy+heater - https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F232025-Portable-California/dp/B002QUZGS8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512879144&sr=8-2&keywords=little+buddy+heater
or

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH18B-Portable-Propane/dp/B0002WRHE8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1512879144&sr=8-4&keywords=little+buddy+heater - http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH18B-Portable-Propane/dp/B0002WRHE8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1512879144&sr=8-4&keywords=little+buddy+heater

TT


-------------
2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by furpod

At -20F, you don't have enough surface area in a 5 gallon tank to evaporate fast enough to maintain gas flow.


Interesting.  A quick Google search indicates not only that what you say is probably true, but the higher the rate of usage of the propane, the colder it's going to get.  The furnace running continuously is going to cause rapid cool-down of the propane.  At minus 20, it may not matter how slow or fast you try to use the propane though, the boil-off is likely to be so slow.

This is another argument for the Mr. Heater heaters that would have the propane bottles inside the heated area.

TT


-------------
2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 12:48am
Originally posted by StephenH

Another alternative to the heater mentioned above is a Mr. Heater Portable. I would not recommend the Little Buddy because it is so top-heavy that it falls over too easily, especially with the newer 1 lb disposable cylinders which have the plastic base. The base for the Little Buddy isn't tall enough to hold the tank adequately. The portable works well, but one does need to provide some fresh air venting for the Mr. Buddy heaters. It does not take much, only a few square inches. With the Mr. Buddy filter and a hose, one can use a larger tank also. If one is using a distribution post with a larger tank, the Little Buddy could be mounted there and the weight of the larger tank will be adequate to ensure stability. However, that would mean bringing a larger tank inside which might not be desirable. I would think that catalytic heaters would also require venting to prevent CO poisoning.

The 1 lb. propane 'bottles' don't last long at all when used for heating a space, especially when you're talking about sub-freezing and more especially sub-zero outside temperatures.  Connecting to a 20 lb. or larger propane tank is really a must.

The Mr. Heaters are a fine heat source.  It is absolutely critical that the Pod be adequately ventilated (just open a window a few inches and/or the vent on the ceiling) and that an operational carbon monoxide detector be used.

That being said, I'm now convinced that the Olympian Wave heaters are far superior.  They are catalytic heaters and convert most of their heat to radiant heat (i.e. 'light' heat) rather than convection heat (i.e. heated air).  This makes them far superior at directing heat in a specific direction (e.g. toward you) rather than that heat going straight up to the ceiling.  Those using them in RVs report using much less propane with them.  Further, since they are catalytic, once they warm up, they produce absolutely zero carbon monoxide.  They still require ventilation because they produce carbon dioxide and need fresh oxygen, but this is far less dangerous than carbon monoxide.  Regardless, a carbon monoxide detector should still be used in any enclosed space when anything is being burned.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas

Originally posted by furpod

At -20F, you don't have enough surface area in a 5 gallon tank to evaporate fast enough to maintain gas flow.


Interesting.  A quick Google search indicates not only that what you say is probably true, but the higher the rate of usage of the propane, the colder it's going to get.  The furnace running continuously is going to cause rapid cool-down of the propane.  At minus 20, it may not matter how slow or fast you try to use the propane though, the boil-off is likely to be so slow.

This is another argument for the Mr. Heater heaters that would have the propane bottles inside the heated area.

TT

I used to live in North Dakota, where -50F happens with some regularity every winter.  At -44F, propane no longer boils.  You could open the tank and stare at the liquid propane.  Those with no other heat source literally have to build a fire with something like wood around their propane tank to heat it up enough for it to vaporize.  Now, most people just get underground tanks, which are sufficient to keep them from getting that cold.

It's a different world below zero.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 7:27am
can you guys summarize all this for me so im on track.  the furnace/heater will or will not work at -20?  hogone

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 7:53am
Originally posted by hogone

can you guys summarize all this for me so im on track.  the furnace/heater will or will not work at -20?  hogone


To summarize.. the furnace/heater itself will work. BUT... it won't work with a 5 gallon upright tank, due to the small surface area and being to close to the boil point of liquid propane.

Your propane tank stores liquid propane, but all your appliances use gaseous propane. The propane liquid boils at a very low temperature. (-44F) as it boils and moves to a gas, the lines feed it to the appliances. When using a high draw appliance, and the cabin heater is the highest in the Pod, it needs a roiling boil, but at those low temps, it's just a simmer. So you need higher storage temps, or more surface area in the storage container, to be able to produce enough gaseous propane to run the heater.


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Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 8:31am
Originally posted by WillThrill

The 1 lb. propane 'bottles' don't last long at all when used for heating a space, especially when you're talking about sub-freezing and more especially sub-zero outside temperatures.  Connecting to a 20 lb. or larger propane tank is really a must.

The Mr. Heaters are a fine heat source.  It is absolutely critical that the Pod be adequately ventilated (just open a window a few inches and/or the vent on the ceiling) and that an operational carbon monoxide detector be used.

That being said, I'm now convinced that the Olympian Wave heaters are far superior.  They are catalytic heaters and convert most of their heat to radiant heat (i.e. 'light' heat) rather than convection heat (i.e. heated air).  This makes them far superior at directing heat in a specific direction (e.g. toward you) rather than that heat going straight up to the ceiling.  Those using them in RVs report using much less propane with them.  Further, since they are catalytic, once they warm up, they produce absolutely zero carbon monoxide.  They still require ventilation because they produce carbon dioxide and need fresh oxygen, but this is far less dangerous than carbon monoxide.  Regardless, a carbon monoxide detector should still be used in any enclosed space when anything is being burned.

Best I can tell, the claim that catalytic propane heaters produce zero CO is not correct.  They produce less than propane heaters that have a flame, but they do produce CO and consume O.  The bottom line is that with any non-vented heater used in a Pod, one should use caution and have a CO detector, and an ODS (oxygen depletion sensor, which the Mr. Heater heaters have (they don't have CO detectors as I thought)), and keep a window or the vent cracked.  Beyond that, I don't like the idea of using them while I sleep.  Sleeping bags and blankets are much preferred to indoor unvented heaters and the possibility of waking up dead.

I use Mr. Heater heaters all the time.  They are radiant heaters, which I agree are preferable in a Pod.  I like the big ones that let you hook up 2 x one pound bottles.  Two bottles will last a pretty long time on low.  I don't think low will cut it at -20° F though.  It is a much more expensive way to heat than with propane from a 20 lb bottle though.  You can hook up the Mr. Heater heaters to a 20 lb (or larger) tank, but it's not recommended to have the larger tank indoors.

TT


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas

Best I can tell, the claim that catalytic propane heaters produce zero CO is not correct.  They produce less than propane heaters that have a flame, but they do produce CO and consume O. 

No, it is literally impossible for a working, 'warmed up' catalytic heater to produce carbon monoxide.  The reason is because the heater is oxidizing the propane at a temperature below that needed to produce a flame.  Without a flame, it is not possible to generate carbon monoxide.

"One of the most common comments we get asked is, “Do catalytic heaters generate carbon monoxide?”. Carbon monoxide is a gas that is produced during the burning of fossil fuels and can be deadly when it builds up in small enclosed areas like tents, trailers, garage or hunting cabins. Luckily, catalytic heaters do not produce carbon monoxide since propane is a clean burning gas making these heaters perfectly safe to use in areas with little ventilation."
https://www.sleepingbagdirt.com/coleman-catalytic-heater-information-and-tips/

That being said, if the catalytic plate becomes contaminated or damaged in some way, then combustion can occur, generating carbon monoxide.  So a carbon monoxide detector is still highly recommended.  And ventilation is still necessary in order to prevent oxygen levels from dropping too lowly and carbon dioxide levels from increasing too highly.

The thermal efficiency of catalytic heaters is also far superior to that of traditional propane heaters like the Mr. Buddy line.  And since they operate with no flame once warmed up, they represent far less of a fire hazard.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 5:54pm
I'm not sure why the source you quote would insist that catalytic heaters do not produce carbon monoxide. Propane consists of 3 carbon atoms and 8 hydrogen atoms with the structure of CH3-CH2-CH3. Whether in a flame type unit like the Mr. Heater or a catalytic heater, the carbon and hydrogen "burn" to produce heat. The catalyst ensures it does so at a lower temperature, but be sure that the carbon also "burns." Otherwise, you would end up with the catalyst plugged with a block of carbon.

Because both "burn" the carbon as well as the hydrogen, both can create carbon monoxide if there is insufficient oxygen to allow for complete combustion. Both require ventilation and both will need an oxygen depletion sensor to cut off the fuel supply if oxygen levels drop below the point where safe combustion can be assured. Since both also generate water as a byproduct of combustion, the ventilation is also needed to eliminate the moisture build-up that occurs.

Product descriptions for product efficiency:
Camco Olympian RV Wave-3: 99.98% efficient
Mr. Buddy Portable: 99.9% efficient (I could not find any other description except "near 100% efficient).
Both are highly efficient. Both will not produce carbon monoxide if sufficient ventilation is provided but both present a risk if used in a closed area with insufficient ventilation.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 5:47am
i do have a mr heater, so one more question.  don't you think the pod has enough air breaches (like around the slide along the bottom when open) as to not need to crack a window?  just curious.  hogone


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Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 6:02am
I think you would be okay. I have used my buddy heater in my ice fishing shanty for years an never had a problem. it does have a few drafts in it. Can keep it warm inside 70 ish, when it is 5 to -5 outside.



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Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150
2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk
Previously owned
2015 Rpod 179
2010 Rpod 171


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 7:32am
I think you should crack a window or the vent for O, CO, and to help prevent moisture buildup.  And I don't think it's wise to run any kind of ventless heater overnight while you sleep.

TT


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 8:46am
When we were in the very cold (4 degree) weather, I set the regular furnace at a low temp (55-60 degrees) at night and ran the Buddy while we were awake. That helped conserve propane and kept us from getting too cold.I had the bathroom vent slightly open. There was some air infiltration under the slide-out. I also had the window in the door open just a tiny bit. Since I had installed a window that could open in the door of our 179, I could do that.

I also agree that it is not wise to run a ventless heater unattended, either while sleeping or away.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 10:54am
Originally posted by StephenH

I'm not sure why the source you quote would insist that catalytic heaters do not produce carbon monoxide. Propane consists of 3 carbon atoms and 8 hydrogen atoms with the structure of CH3-CH2-CH3. Whether in a flame type unit like the Mr. Heater or a catalytic heater, the carbon and hydrogen "burn" to produce heat. The catalyst ensures it does so at a lower temperature, but be sure that the carbon also "burns." Otherwise, you would end up with the catalyst plugged with a block of carbon.

Because both "burn" the carbon as well as the hydrogen, both can create carbon monoxide if there is insufficient oxygen to allow for complete combustion. Both require ventilation and both will need an oxygen depletion sensor to cut off the fuel supply if oxygen levels drop below the point where safe combustion can be assured. Since both also generate water as a byproduct of combustion, the ventilation is also needed to eliminate the moisture build-up that occurs.

Until recently, I thought the same.  But the chemical reaction occurring in a catalytic conversion is not exactly the same as that of 'normal' combustion.  I'm not a chemist, so don't ask me about the specific chemical reactions occurring.

Here's another source indicating properly functioning catalytic heaters produce virtually no carbon monoxide.
https://catalyticovens.com/catalytic-heater-emissions/

At any rate, even a catalytic heater still needs an adequate oxygen supply to function.  If it becomes oxygen starved, the catalytic reaction may stop and normal combustion can occur, leading to the production of carbon monoxide.  So ventilation is still necessary.  And as I said before, you still need a carbon monoxide detector in the space, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone go to sleep with any type of heater running.

Regarding the efficiency, I agree that both non-vented heaters like the Mr. Buddy and catalytic heaters like the Olympian Wave are virtually 100% efficient.  But that doesn't mean that they are both producing the same type of heat.  Recall that there are three types of heat: conduction (warming an object directly), convection (warming an object indirectly via air), and radiant (infrared, radiant heat).  At least 80% of the heat produced by a catalytic heater is radiant, whereas the majority of the heat produced by regular propane heaters is by convection.  The problem with warmed air is that it rises to the ceiling in an enclosed space, making the top of the space warm while the bottom is still cool or even cold (i.e. stratified air).  Radiant heat, however, can be literally pointed at what you want heated (e.g. yourself).  Consequently, it is very possible for you to use less propane to achieve the goal of keeping yourself warm, which is precisely what many of those who have used both types of heaters report.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 12:17pm
The http://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html - Mr. Buddy heaters produce radiant heat primarily with some convective (as do the catalytic heaters). The glowing ceramic plates in the Mr. Buddy heater perform much as the catalytic mat in the catalytic heaters to ensure virtually 100% efficient combustion. Regardless of the exact means, both combine hydrogen and oxygen to produce water and carbon and oxygen to produce carbon dioxide when there is sufficient oxygen to support proper combustion. When there is too little oxygen, both will not be able to support this process and produce carbon monoxide. That is why the Buddy heaters include an oxygen depletion sensor. I do not know if the catalytic heaters include an ODS or not. The ODS will cut off the fuel supply if the oxygen level drops to 18% or less from the normal 20.95%. This is above the level where carbon monoxide would likely be produced.

The chart on the linked page specifies the type of heat produced by the Buddy heater is Radiant.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by StephenH

The http://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html - Mr. Buddy heaters produce radiant heat primarily with some convective (as do the catalytic heaters). The glowing ceramic plates in the Mr. Buddy heater perform much as the catalytic mat in the catalytic heaters to ensure virtually 100% efficient combustion. Regardless of the exact means, both combine hydrogen and oxygen to produce water and carbon and oxygen to produce carbon dioxide when there is sufficient oxygen to support proper combustion. When there is too little oxygen, both will not be able to support this process and produce carbon monoxide. That is why the Buddy heaters include an oxygen depletion sensor. I do not know if the catalytic heaters include an ODS or not. The ODS will cut off the fuel supply if the oxygen level drops to 18% or less from the normal 20.95%. This is above the level where carbon monoxide would likely be produced.

The chart on the linked page specifies the type of heat produced by the Buddy heater is Radiant.

You seem to be trying to say that there is no meaningful difference between a Mr. Buddy and a catalytic heater.


-------------
"Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien

2014 Hood River 177
2005 GMC Envoy XL


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 7:46pm
When it comes to safety, there is no essential difference between the two. Which one to get is a personal preference.

From the Olympian Wave manual:
The heater consumes air from the space in which it is used.
Sufficient fresh air must be provided to assure complete
combustion of the fuel gas. Improper combustion can result
in the production of poisonous carbon monoxide, causing
danger of asphyxiation and death. Carbon monoxide is an
odorless, colorless gas. Early signs of carbon monoxide
poisoning resemble the flu, with headache, dizziness and/
or nausea. If you have these signs, heater may not be
working properly. Get fresh air at once! Have heater serviced.
Symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning often cannot be
recognized before losing consciousnes.

From the Buddy manual:
Asphyxiation Hazard
­ •­ Do­ not­ use­ in­ unventilated­ areas.
­ •­ The­ flow­ of­ combustion­ and­ ventilation­ air­ must­­
­ not­ be­ obstructed.
­ •­ Proper­ ventilation­ air­ must­ be­ provided­ to­­ ­
­ support­ the­ combustion­ air­ requirements­ of­ the­­
­ heater­ being­ used.
­ •­ Refer­ to­ the­ specification­ section­ of­ the­ heater’s­­
­ manual,­ heater­ data plate,­ or­ contact­ the­ factory­­
­ to­­ determine­ combustion­ air­ ventilation­­ ­
­ requirements­ of­ the­ heater.
­ •­ Lack­of­ proper­ ventilation­ air­ will­ lead­ to­­ ­
­ improper­ combustion.
­ •­ Improper­ combustion­ can­ lead­ to­ carbon­­ ­
­ monoxide­ poisoning­ leading­ to­ serious­ injury­ or­­
­ death.­ Symptoms­ of­ carbon­ monoxide­ poisoning­­
­ can­ include­ headaches,­ dizziness­ and­ difficulty­­
­ in­ breathing.

The warnings are essentially the same for both heaters.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 5:26am
so hopefully it will get below zero here over the next couple of days (4 is the low so far).  so my pod furnace will work say at 2 below, correct?  hogone

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 7:12am
_21 this morning..................

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Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150
2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk
Previously owned
2015 Rpod 179
2010 Rpod 171


Posted By: ronahue
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 8:13am
Last year a friend and I were working in a closed garage using a Propane powered forklift when we both suffered from serious CO poisoning. What surprised us was the symptoms, no headache, dizziness or nausea. The symptoms we had were rapid breathing, weakness and rapid heart rate. We were saved by the CO detector in the R-pod (which was stored in the garage) which was actually locked but my friend could hear the beeping coming from the trailer. Their was no odor or other sign of CO only the symptoms I mentioned. I cringe when I read of people disconnecting their CO detectors this is very dangerous stuff.

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Ron & Sharon
2015 R-Pod 179
2022 Nissan Frontier

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message but a billion electrons were really agitated


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2017 at 9:24am
Wow. Harrowing story. CO is insidious. No odor, no color. CO is the one substance that binds to the oxygen receptors in hemoglobin better than oxygen. From what I've read, hemoglobin that has bound to CO, will not accept oxygen. The one cure is a transfusion.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: ronahue
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 10:43am
Just saw this on Google news:

Three Hunters Found Dead West of Waco

Posted on 

DALLAS (WBAP/KLIF News) – Three relatives were found dead in Central Texas while on a hunting trip together.

The three are believed to have died of carbon monoxide poisoning, inside a box trailer that was converted into a cabin. Officials in Brown county said propane heaters were used to keep the cabin warm, but without proper ventilation, there was no way for the poisonous fumes to escape.

The bodies were found on Saturday inside a trailer, about 100 miles west of Waco. The names of the victims, have not been released.
(Copyright2017 WBAP/KLIF News. All Rights Reserved.)




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Ron & Sharon
2015 R-Pod 179
2022 Nissan Frontier

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message but a billion electrons were really agitated


Posted By: Live2Camp
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 10:41am
Originally posted by ronahue

Just saw this on Google news:

Three Hunters Found Dead West of Waco

Posted on 

DALLAS (WBAP/KLIF News) – Three relatives were found dead in Central Texas while on a hunting trip together.

Oh this is so terribly sad, and a serious caution/reminder for all of us. 




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2017 R-Pod 179 HRE (the green one)
His:Ford F150 double cab 4WD; Hers/mine:Tacoma V6 double cab 4WD
Still love rugged, diggin' comfy too


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:04pm
Family of 4 reported dead in AZ, heater failure, CO2 poisoning.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: riotkayak284
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 1:36pm
Never EVER run any type of heating unit that burns fuel of ANY kind without opening a window or proper outside venting.... PERIOD!


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by mcarter

Family of 4 reported dead in AZ, heater failure, CO2 poisoning.
Just a question. Did you mean CO (Carbon MONoxide) as opposed to CO2 (Carbon DIoxide). Carbon Monoxide (CO) is poisonous at very low concentrations. We exhale Carbon Dioxide (CO2) all the time. Carbon Dioxide is mostly non-reactive, and it takes quite a bit to become toxic.

https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/1209952-co-and-co2-what-s-the-difference - https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/1209952-co-and-co2-what-s-the-difference



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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 4:56pm
Yes Sir.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: PilotPodder
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 6:34pm
A good reminder to check the carbon monoxide detector battery next time I'm taking the Pod out. 

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Portage, MI — 2017 RPod 179 - sold / 2017 Toyota Tundra — https://johnmarucci.com/r-pod-video-list/ - My RPod YouTube Videos



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