FR 50 to 30 amp warning
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Topic: FR 50 to 30 amp warning
Posted By: lgblau
Subject: FR 50 to 30 amp warning
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 11:03am
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Hi. Did anyone happen to catch the FaceBook FR dog bone warning on the Face Book RPod Forum, that was posted today. ------------- Leonard🌵 2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
Replies:
Posted By: Larry-D
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 11:48am
| It would be nice if they posted it on their website since not everyone uses Facebook |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 12:07pm
It was in response to a discussion ON the FB group. But to paraphrase.. "Don't use a 50/30A dogbone, our lawyers think it is unsafe". ------------- |
Posted By: Larry-D
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 12:10pm
| "Lawyers", that tells the whole story |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 2:17pm
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Especially since with some campgrounds like the one we stayed at this spring, there is no alternative than to use a 50 to 30A adapter. It was either use it or do without an electrical connection.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 2:54pm
Heh, heh, like that's a bad thing.. Sorry, couldn't help myself. I spend far too much time away from said camping areas.. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 3:16pm
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I hate to play the Symantics game, so this is a legitimate thought. I almost always use a 50 amp adapter. The type of adapter I use is a solid one piece cord cap style plug that has 4 male prongs on one side, and 3 females on the other side. It doesn't have a hanging cable between two different plugs. I wonder if it's only the " dogbone " configuration they don't like? I can't see that simply plugging a 30 amp plug into a 50 amp receptacle would be a problem. Is something not making sense here? Is it me?
------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 3:26pm
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I also read the post. What I read into it is you passing a higher load from the pole. I'll let someone smarter work through this, but... 50amp is 4 pronged. To me that's 220v. If the 'doggone' (or whatever) drops a leg, then it's taking 110v at 25a (only from one side). I've never been to a 50a pole nor tested one. So I'm talking out my (well you know) and haven't a clue. Here's the post for you folks: You work it out.. I know there are these cheater plugs available to step a 50 amp down to plug into a 30 amp receptacle or a 30 amp into a 20 amp, and there are adapters to step things the opposite direction, have been for many years. None of these adapters are listed with UL or approved by NEC. The scenario is that the customer plugs a 30 amp unit into a 50 amp receptacle, the adapter does not make allowances or have a fuse or breaker system built into them so the 30 amp power cord could develop a short or arc at the connection causing a fire and the 50 amp breaker will not trip to protect the system." So again, OFFICIALLY from Forest River, that sticker means 100% that they only intend and advise Owners to use and plug into a 30 amp receptacle. So where does that leave so many of use that own and use these adapters? Well it leaves us with the choice to do what we think is best, as the situation demands. Feel free do discuss your side and advice on this so that we might, as a community provide information and experiences that will allow current and future Owners decide how they wish to approach the use of said adapters. Finally, and I say this with hopes that no one goes too far off subject or begins arguing instead of discussing this topic, if you choose to go that route you will find yourself removed from this post and muted.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Wood River Pod
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 4:01pm
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Thanks for posting here olddawg.
So, can I assume that my Provessive Industries hardwired EMS unit between the pole and my converter will provide me some added and necessary protection? Thanks ------------- Smith's in Hailey Early 2017 179 HRE http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9134&PN=1&title=wood-river-179-mods - Wood River Mods |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 4:51pm
It is 2 50A legs. Not 2 25A legs to get to "50A". A 50A camper has 2 50A 120v circuits in it. Though it comes in as 240V, the distribution box is not configured like a household one, and you can not pull from both legs with a double breaker to get 240v past the box. The important thing to know is.. a 50A camper doesn't have 20A more available to it then a 30A, BUT 70Amps more.. that's why some have 3 a/c's... LOL But they run into the same thing we do if they turn to much stuff on at once..  Oh, and yes, it just drops a leg. The "worry" is that while the 'camper" is protected from a 30A issue at the distribution box, all the wiring between the plug and box, including the plug at the side of the trailer, (which can already be sketchy) isn't it is protected only by the 50A breaker at the pedestal.
------------- |
Posted By: crankster78
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 7:24pm
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Greetings You have a 30 amp breaker on the panel in the camper. To be safe on the cord, you can most likely find a external weather proof 30 amp breaker to put in line next to the post I have been in some parks where you only have a 50 amp. All RV's to my knowledge operate on 120 V Crankster78 ------------- Crankster 78 R-179 2015 |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 7:51pm
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Right. It's sometimes referred to as "split phase", and you have the (potential) of two 50 amp single phase circuits or one 240 volt 50 amp circuit. If I were to split off one of the phases, I would put a separate breaker box between the pod and the 50 amp connector with a 30 amp breaker in it. Don't try this unless you know what you're doing. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:23pm
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Use of the dogbone adapter in conjunction with my circuit analyzer/surge protector gives me confidence to use the the 50A outlet if a 30A outlet is not available. If the circuit analyzer indicates the connection is good, I'm okay with it. The potential for damage is if there is a defective post that is not wired according to specs. If one of the hot and the neutral connections is reversed, then it could feed 240V through the dogbone if the adapter happens to pull power from the leg that happens to be wired hot and the miswired neutral. However, if the outlet is wired correctly, I think it is improbable that 240V would be fed to the 'Pod. The 'Pod's 30A main breaker would protect the 'Pod. Our houses are fed with very many amps and they don't blow up items that only require 15A or less. That is because each circuit is protected by a suitably sized breaker.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:12am
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Let me add some engineering clarity to this issue. StephenH has most of it right. Using the dogbone provides a single 120V/50A circuit. The 30A breaker in the camper will protect the wiring in the camper so the only thing left partially unprotected is the cord from the pedestal to the camper. If a true short were to develop in that cord or connectors, or the few feet of wire between the camper wall and the power converter panel inside the camper, the 50A breaker on the CG pedestal would trip. In the almost impossible situation where a cord defect could cause current of more than 30A but less than 50A to flow the cord would just get warm. Fire danger is essentially zero.
The use of a good surge protector that senses under and over voltage (TRC Surge Guard) is always recommended, even without a dogbone. Wiring errors or faulty wiring can cause a dangerous situation or equipment damage if undetected. Miswired pedestals can be hazardous to humans. Low voltage will damage A/C motors; high voltage will damage almost anything else plugged in to the camper. It’s very cheap insurance. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: lgblau
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:50am
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Thanks CharlieM for the great, understandable( in English) explanation. ------------- Leonard🌵 2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 9:13am
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So, I'm reading " Continue doing what you've been doing" ? There is virtually no risk here?? Because I always choose the 50 amp with my adapter if one is available. I had two trips that when i plugged into the 30 amp, the plug didn't stay fully engaged from the weight of the cable. A partially engaged plug I believe is a hazard, so i've heard. My 50 adapter always plugs in nice and tight. ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 11:54am
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Charlie, RE: TRC Surge Guard. Which one do you recommend? Some say the entry level one is prone to water damage. Your opinion, sir. Thanks, fred ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 12:46pm
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Fred, I recommend the TRC 34830, the new 34930, or their hard wired equivalents. The lower end protectors check for wiring and snag surges but don't monitor for high/low voltage. That's a big deal. Low voltage is a common problem on summer afternoons when everyone is running their A/C. Note that none actually interrupt for high current. That's what breakers are for.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 1:32pm
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Thank you sir! fred ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 9:21pm
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Thank you for adding to my comment. I'm glad I had "most of it right." One of these days, I will upgrade my circuit analyzer/surge protector to a more capable unit. However, that just got farther away since I am in the process of rebuilding my chimney chase (wood framed prefab fireplace/chimney) plus I just had some trees trimmed and two removed, neither of which are inexpensive projects.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 3:19pm
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I'm really surprised that someone doesn't make a 50-to-30A adapter with a built-in 30A breaker. Wouldn't that solve the problem? ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:12pm
The fact that no one makes such a thing tells you how much of an issue it isn't. ------------- |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:16pm
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+1 :) ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:49pm
True. I would take a special type of circumstance for it to be a problem, i.e. a sustained 30-50A load between the pole and the R-Pod's main breaker. A short would likely trip the pole breaker before any wiring in the Pod could fry. You could lose your surge suppressor though. ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2018 at 2:39pm
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The issue I see is the amperage. Unless you have some means of fault current/overload protection between the 50 amp and the 30 amp, you are exceeding the capacity of your cable and input connector. Now, with that said, there is an exception in the National Electric code, which allows for 25 ft bus tap at 1/3rd the wire size of the bus, without overload protection at the source. I'm not sure if the NEC applies here, but the only safe way would be to change out the 50 amp circuit breaker to a 30 amp, or fuse it at the adapter. Don't confuse surge protection with overload, or fault current protection, they are three different things. ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 9:44am
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Yes, the issue is the lack of overcurrent protection as the supply side of a 50A service will have overcurrent protection listed for 50A while the conductors (internal and external) and the AC distribution panel in your 30A RV will be designed to handle 30A. So it's up to you to decide if you want to take that risk or not. I personally wouldn't. That is a real risk, not imaginary. If a fault occurs in the conductors between the dog bone and the distribution panel in your trailer you can overheat your conductors and/or terminations resulting in a fire. And no, not all faults are low resistance faults, so you can't count on any fault that occurs pulling enough current to clear the 50A service breaker. There's a reason why there are 15A breakers in your home distribution panel, you don't get to use that argument to allow use of 30A breakers to protect 14 gauge circuits. And yes, the NEC does cover RVs. You can view it for free on the NFPA website if you want, it's NFPA 70. There is a dedicated section for RVs and for RV parks, Article 551. If you look at 551.71(C) it requires all RV park sites with a 50A receptacle to also have a 30A receptacle. Compliance with that is on the park owner not you. So, you should never need that dog bone in the first place if the electrical system in the park complies with the current version of the NEC. I'm carefully wording this to say "current version of the NEC" because the requirement for both 50A and 30A circuits on the pedestals only went into effect in the last code cycle, which was 2014. So its clear to everyone, property owners are not required by their authority having jurisdiction (typically the city or county building department) to modify their electrical systems every time a new code version comes out. Only new work is covered, and often the code version in effect in a jurisdiction is one code cycle out of date. Their insurance companies might have a more stringent requirement though. And if they start losing customers that would be a real incentive, so rather than use a dog bone, you may want is to politely tell them that they are not in compliance with the current version of the NEC and go stay somewhere else. Also 551.40(B) requires all electrical system components, including any cords and adapters, to be listed for the intended use. Compliance with that is on you, not the park owner, since you are providing them and connecting them. I've never looked at a 50A male to 30A female dogbone (and I don't plan to buy one), is that thing actually listed? If so, there should be a mark on it, typically in the US it would be UL or ETL. And there should also be instructions and use limitations that came with it, those are required as part of the listing. What do those say about how it is intended to be used? I'm curious because right now I don't see an application for it that assures safe use. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:02am
Sooner or later, if you camp with hookups, you will find a pedestal where the 30A Looks like some one stuck a couple welding rods in them and moved them around, they will be arced and damaged. Sometimes, A lot. I have seen several through the years, and am always happy to see that near virgin, 50A connection. Random product description from the first hit on Amazon: RV Camp Power Pigtail Adapter Cord, NEMA 14-50P to NEMA TT-30R Rating: 50A 125/250V to 30A 125V Cable: 1.5FT STW 10/3 Approval: Plug, STW: UL, C-UL I need to start taking pictures of them so I can post them.. We had one this summer at the ERU that was literally rounded out by arcing and heat on the 30A connectors, but the 50A looked like it had been used about 3 times. Happily plugged in the dogbone. I could add them to my files where I keep videos and stuff about other things, like why we always use a water pressure regulator..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMnek4JHqns&feature=youtu.be - Off the gauge.. ------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:23am
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Or you will encounter a situation like we did at the campground in West Yellowstone where there were no 30A receptacles. It was either use an adapter or do without shore power. I chose to use an adapter (provided by the office). I have not purchased one since that has been the only time so far that I encountered that situation.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: lgblau
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:52am
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Just got back from a 14 day trip to Indiana. Most of the rv parks we stayed at did not even have a circuit bracker to control the box. Hated that. ------------- Leonard🌵 2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 11:51am
That's interesting, because Indiana is where the majority of RVs are manufactured. They must know something that the rest of us don't.  ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:34pm
furpod, your salient statement is "if you camp with hookups". Since I never do, this will not be a problem for me personally.  Clearly, the code writers have recognized that there is a problem here that needed to be addressed, or the NEC would not have been changed to require 30A receptacles on all pedestals that have 50A receptacles. The NEC is about safety not convenience. Commercial interests would have fought it and it wouldn't have been approved if there wasn't a safety problem. Looks like the applicable test standard for the dog bones is UL 817. I found a 2011 version online and it has requirements that would assure that the dog bone is able in this case to handle 50A (type of connector, wire gauge, molding materials, but doesn't specify anything about what it's connected to. This is pretty typical of UL specs, they tend to be limited to assurance that the product itself is safe and don't extend beyond that. What I was looking for is the actual instructions that are provided with the product. I would have thought that limitations and safety warnings would be part of those in order to limit manufacturer liability. As i said, everyone needs to make a personal decision about risks each is willing to take. Sometimes one can know too much about a topic. I've seen way too many electrical faults of many different kinds to knowingly want to create a condition where they can occur. Especially not one that could trap my family in a little burning box. I've never seen a propane explosion so that doesn't bother me so much, but maybe it should. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:49pm
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Ul listed for 50 amps, but what about the reverse input receptacle and adjoining cable? Seems that they would need to be addressed also, but maybe I'm getting too technical. Frankly if it came down to power, or no power I would opt to use the adapter, regardless of the risks. ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:11pm
It is possible that the breaker for that circuit is in a building. It isn't as if the RV park would have no breakers. We stayed in one like that and were told where to find the breaker if needed. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:31pm
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The UL listing for the dog bone only addresses the dog bone. It is sure enough safe to connect to 50A. The NRTL is putting up an SEP (somebody else's problem) field around the dog bone. They were asked to evaluate and list a product to a standard and they did. If you've ever read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy you'll know what an SEP field is. If you haven't read it, you should Besides, the manufacturer is their customer, not the consumer. Now its a little different for the manufacturer. They can't knowingly sell something to a consumer that creates an unsafe condition in normal use and hide behind the argument that its listed. Well they can try but they wouldn't be in business for very long that way. Internal memos from their engineers to management are discoverable and can lead to juries handing out huge product liability settlements.... That's why I'm curious to see what the instructions that come with the dog bone say. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:41pm
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The 2017 NEC requires disconnecting means at the pedestal. Could be a switch or a circuit breaker. I don't know how long ago that became a requirement though. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 3:26pm
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The Pod is protected by a main breaker. The power cord draw is limited to the amperage of that breaker, unless there is dmage to the cord. A sudden defect causing a short circuit would cause sufficient draw that would trip the 50 amp breaker on the pedestal. I can't imagine any situation that would cause the cord to create heat and catch fire. This is like plugging a device with a number 16 power cord into a twenty amp outlet. The wire is much to small to carry 20 amps but we do it all the time. The
------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 3:57pm
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I see it all the time, where a connection is marginal, but is not enough current flow to cause the circuit breaker to trip, or a fuse to blow. It's kind of like a high impedance heater coil, but without the controlled resistance. True we use lamp cord all the time for appliances, but if you look at something with allot of wattage, the cord is usually sized for the load. JMHO ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 4:12pm
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No, it is not the same thing as for example a table lamp that uses 16 gauge wire. The conductors between the receptacle on the trailer and the panel are not temporary wiring like a table lamp, they are permanent, and as such the NEC applies. The NEC is intended to keep those conductors from overheating and causing a fire. The breaker in the trailer panel does not protect those conductors as it is downstream from the source feeding the conductors. As I said, there are plenty of electrical faults which are sufficiently resistive that they do not trip the breaker. Not only can I imagine them, I've seen them. So, it is your option to use one of the dog bones but know that there is risk involved in doing that. if you don't believe me, that's fine, go read the warning label underneath your trailer receptacle. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: lgblau
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:04pm
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StephanH....Are you serious. Like I’m going to look all over the rv park to find a buliding that has the breaker for my outlet. ------------- Leonard🌵 2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:24pm
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I did not need to find the breaker since we did not have any issues. I don't think we will be returning to that particular RV park again. You don't need to look all through the RV park, just ask at the office.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:26pm
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So - you have a pedestal with a 50A and a 30A outlet, you plug into the 30A and you get 120V, 30A capability at 3600 watts. You get out your dogbone and plug your 30A connector into the 50A connector which has 2 independent 120Vs and about 12000 watts capability, however the dogbone only gives one 120V circuit and how is it that you can exceed the 3600 watt capability of your 30A service? I don't think you can. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:42pm
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mcarter, its not about how many watts of load. Its about the amps you can see in your conductors under fault conditions. The circuit the dog bone is connected to has overcurrent protection rated at 50A. The dog bone is required to use 6 AWG conductors which can handle 50A. The cord you connect into he conductors and the conductors between the receptacle on your trailer and the trailer power center are not rated for 50A, only for 30. Hence these conductors can overheat and start a fire in the event of a fault current which exceeds 30A but is less than the 50A that can trip the 50A service breaker. Hope that makes sense. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:47pm
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Sure, it does. I can't find any RV authority that warns against this. I guess we are back to the "risk" discussion, like a lightning strike, BTW I have been thru a propane explosion. Thanks. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:18pm
Name one that exists in the cable. ------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:41pm
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OK, I think we ran this subject into the ground. Next! ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 7:44pm
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Sure, Keith-N-Dar, water entry creates corrosion which results in a current limited line to ground fault across the receptacle pins. Then you add 28 amps of ac load by running the microwave and air con simultaneously. Voila, overheated conductors. That kind of thing happens all the time, especially ground faults, and especially in wet location applications, which RV cabling is. There are at least two people on the limited sample of this forum who have experienced these kind of faults. In fact, come to think of it, I had a similar fault occur just yesterday, but on my house, not my RV. I just returned home after Florence and had corrosion in one of my receptacles resulting in a current limited line to line fault. Outdoor rated enclosure but nothing really stands up to blowing salt water from a hurricane. Didn't know it was there until I tripped my breaker after adding a load to that circuit. Ask me if I was glad I had a properly sized breaker on that line.... Well mcarter.... Forest River warns against it, right on the label.... And mcarter, yikes re the propane explosion, sorry to hear that. Can you share the causes and results, maybe we'd all learn something from that? By all means adventurelust, let's move on, I for one am not out to get anyone to change their mind. I only object to mis- or incomplete information because I think someone else who later reads this thread needs to have the facts in order to make an informed decision. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Happy Tripping
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 8:03pm
Uh, ... actually, no. When something becomes tedious to us, we have the choice of simply not reading the thread (or whatever it's called). Because I don't understand the issues in this topic, I am still getting benefit from it. My summary - 1. 50-30 amp dog bones may be hazardous to your health. 2. 50-30 amp dog bones may be required for electricity at certain rv places. I guess I'll get one for when it's required for electricity. I like A/C.
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:28pm
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If the dogbone included a 30 amp breaker, all would be good.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 6:49am
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That would work GlueGuy but I doubt there is a listed inline wet location circuit breaker available. There are inline fuse assemblies, which would also work, they’re used in solar installations, so they’re wet location rated but probably not ac rated. And if you created your own assembly it wouldn’t be listed so that would be another code violation.
The best and in the end easiest way to do this would probably be just to convert the trailer to 50A service. Lots of people have upgraded older trailers that way. The equipment is listed, readily available and not too expensive, but it would require some labor. You’d need to install a new distribution panel and power inlet box and conductors between the two. And buy a 50a cord and a 30 to 50a dog bone if you still wanted to connect at 30a. That dog bone is safe from the over current problem. And then if you wanted your rPod REALLY cold you could install a second ac unit  ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 3:37pm
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Read all the posts again, and have decided to keep my 50 to 30 dogbone and use like I have in past for times when the 30A is non existent or has problems. BTW - I do not have any warning decals on my pod, but I can understand the concern to a point. One thing I will say a lot of RV sites claim the 50A service is 2 - 25A legs and it is NOT. It is 2 50A legs, Furpod is spot on. Once again a judgment call to me, but where I stand for what it's worth. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lgblau
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 6:12pm
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I don't have any warnings either. I just got back from a 4000 mile trip to Indiana. Was going to Cape Cod,MA for some lobster and clams. However, “Florence” made us change our mind. The Pod performed as expected with no dropped black tank drain falling,or Constancy tires blowing up, or converter quiting,or refer beeping, or water getting in. We had some very rough roads, and really hard rain with hail. Yet we had a great time in our travelling Marriott suite. ------------- Leonard🌵 2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 7:28pm
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If I was really concerned about it, I would use the dogbone plus something https://www.amazon.com/MonkeyJack-12V-24V-Waterproof-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B0722CZ8HW - like this inline waterproof circuit breaker .
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 6:48am
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GlueGuy, if you could find one of those that was 120Vac rated that would work, but that one is only rated for 24Vdc. Probably couldn't clear a 120V arc so just as likely to start a fire as to prevent one. I couldn't find a 120Vac rated one when I looked. I'm a little surprised that some of you don't have that label on your trailers, its required by the NEC now so Forest River has to put it on there. They get inspected for that kind of thing. Just speculating that it may have come out as a requirement in the 2014 code cycle. My trailer is a 2015 so it has it, just under the ac power inlet. If you do use the 50 to 30 dog bone and don't have the label that is a good thing, if you ever did get into an argument with your insurance company about liability  Anyhow I have no issues with anyone who wants to use the 50A to 30A dog bones. Like they say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. We've clearly discussed/maybe over discussed the risks and rewards here so everyone knows the facts and is in a great place to make a well informed personal decision. That's one thing I like about this forum. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 9:33am
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I could not find a 120V inline circuit breaker, but I did find a https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Wiring-Devices-GFI13M1NN-GFCI/dp/B00DUGWDOM/ - Cooper Wiring Devices inline GFI device suitable for outdoor use.There are other models with longer lengths and/or plugs already attached at higher prices. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 11:47am
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StephenH, that is a good find. This one already I think has the correct connectors if you can get a dog bone with a locking female connector on the 30a end. Not much more $ and that way you get a fully listed assembly. https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Wiring-Devices-GFI13M144-30A120V/dp/B00DUGJX4U This would leave only the 2 ft cord on the input end to this device that wasn't rated for 50A. Of course, we all know that GFCI's can be prone to nuisance tripping so that might become an issue for some users. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 11:47am
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My bad for not noting that was for 12VDC. Hubbell also makes an inline GFCI breaker made for 120VAC/30 amps (other voltages and amperage ratings as well), but it is kind of pricey: https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/index~text~6019698~path~product~part~6019698~ds~dept~process~search?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrZLdBRCmARIsAFBZllELPAmgs86UJ-zDo2Nm-iIaP8NFonsn8lONX0TJymNO0kl_7kWSiTYaAkNjEALw_wcB - https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/index~text~6019698~path~product~part~6019698~ds~dept~process~search?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrZLdBRCmARIsAFBZllELPAmgs86UJ-zDo2Nm-iIaP8NFoNsn8lONX0TJymNO0kl_7kWSiTYaAkNjEALw_wcB ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 12:59pm
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Another good find GlueGuy. Looks pretty similar to the Cooper one StephenH found. Both are good companies, can't go wrong. Spendy though for sure. Looks like there are longer cord length and connector combinations available with the Hubbell one so one thought might be to go straight to the trailer power inlet with the output cable from this and avoid having one more exposed connection and cord to carry around. Just bring this one and the 50A dog bone adapter, should be set. And it would help with the concern raised in one of the posts about missing the 30A circuit breaker at the pedestal. Manual set/reset allows it to be used as a shutoff without having to pull a live connection. Also trips on open or grounded neutral. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 2:54pm
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It might be easiest to build your own dogbone with an inline NEMA 3 enclosure inline and put a simple circuit breaker inside. Small NEMA enclosures are relatively cheap, as are 30amp CBs.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 3:21pm
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Sounds like business opportunity to me.
------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 3:52pm
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+1 Keith, might want to d a marketing survey first. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: adventurelust
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 3:57pm
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Go fund me... I'm just saying. ------------- "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 4:19pm
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I'd also want to check on the cost of getting and maintaining the UL listing....and the cost of product liability insurance... And that's why everything gets made in China these days... ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |