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Tankless propane hot water heaters

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Topic: Tankless propane hot water heaters
Posted By: Motor7
Subject: Tankless propane hot water heaters
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 7:53am
Why is the industry still installing bulky tanked water heaters? Tankless would be ideal for the R-Pod line,  any other lightweight trailer, and any rv where space is at a premium. 

In 2011 I installed one in my house that I bought off fleabay for $300-ish. We have very hard water, so other than having to flush the scale out of it once every couple of years it has worked fine.  So the technology is there for the rv industry, just wondering why they are not embracing it?


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2016 R-Pod 176T



Replies:
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:20am
Not sure the technology is quite there. I've looked at some of the more popular ones in the EZ line, to include the portables and the direct vents. It is not a small water heater compared to the present Surburban. I have seen some motor homes with tankless set ups. Is there a model you have seen?

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:51am
Have seen a lot of these installed in new homes where I live.  One of the more popular ones  has four 7,000-watt elements for a total electrical load of 28,000 watts. This extra load requires at least 120 amps. The average home has a total capacity of 200 amps, which means an upgrade would be needed.  I am sure there are smaller units available yet the amps needed to run this would preclude any to be able to boondock unless they had a generator IMHO.

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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:58am
You are right, most of the models that are designed to fit in the 6 gallon compartment are almost the same size as the tanks. Yet the ones that are stand alone are quite compact. It just seems to me that a compact one to replace the 6 gallon would sell like hotcakes(pun intended) and make the 6 gallon ones obsolete. Then 'us' podders would have another square foot of precious storage space Cool

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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 12:01pm
The low cost wall mount propane tankless water heaters you can buy online are not meant for RV use. They need vent clearances around and above the units that you would have a hard time finding the space for. The RV style zero clearance ones are a direct replacement for the suburbans and vent to the outside. Another example of getting what you pay for. I too have a tankless unit at home and I love it but the benefit in RV use I think is minimal, most campers aren’t using that much hot water anyway.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Richand Cindy
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 1:03pm
Tankless RV water heaters have been around for years.  They sucked and some went out of business.  A couple of years ago a German company, Truma brought a model (AquaGo) over to the US.  They are terrific.  Many high end RVs now come with them.  They are not cheap.  We were going to get one as we thought a 6 gal heater would not last a single shower.  However by running both the propane and electric at the same time we find that we do not run out of hot water and have not had to buy one.  The model fits into the same space as the 6 gal heater.  At the Tampa RV Truma technicians would go out to your RV and install it while you were at the RV show for $250.  I highly recommend it but only if you really use alot of hot water and find the standard heater too much of a pain to keep waiting for hot water.  As far as cost, it is not like a home unit where you are paying to heat a 50 gal tank.  Very little propane is used to keep 6 gal hot.  So it is not cost effective to only switch to save money.  I do not think you would ever get your investment back.  Buy one only if you hot water needs demand it  


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OLD 2017.5 RPOD 180 + 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
NEW: 2018 Passport Elite 23RB + 2017 Ram 1500 Diesel


Posted By: Richand Cindy
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 1:09pm
Here is an article about it.  They now have a combi unit for heat and HW
05/28/2018

Lancaster based Lance Camper Mfg. Corp. has made the German made Truma Combi eco plus furnace & water heater combination unit standard on two of their Travel Trailer models, the 1475 and 1575.

Truma is one of Europe’s top RV component suppliers, winning numerous awards for innovation and quality. "With the systems nearly silent operation, space and weigh savings and the industry’s most efficient furnace, the Truma Combi is a perfect feature enhancement for our category leading composite built ultra-light travel trailers" states Bob Rogers, Lance’s Director of Marketing. "The ability to run your furnace using electric power is another huge product differentiator with this unit that our customers will love" adds Rogers.

Mark Howlett, Truma’s Senior VP Business Development says, "We have worked closely with Lance’s engineering and manufacturing teams to ensure the Truma Combi system exceeded their expectations. Lance customers will benefit from a system which provides comfort as well as no maintenance to ensure a peaceful camping experience." The Truma Combi fits well with the technology and quality of Lance Campers, adds Howlett "we are proud to work with a leader in the premium trailer segment and look forward to working with Lance’s dealers and campers."

Units with the new system have begun shipping to Lance dealers.



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OLD 2017.5 RPOD 180 + 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
NEW: 2018 Passport Elite 23RB + 2017 Ram 1500 Diesel


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 2:07pm
With the small 6 gallon tank in an R-pod, and the relatively modest amount of propane that it uses, I might be inclined to think that a tankless water heater would "probably" consume a lot more propane on a gallon-for-gallon basis. That, and it would cost a lot more too. 

I'd be inclined to pass on the option, mainly because you only need it when you're camping. Not every day.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 3:32pm
I would think the tankless is more propane efficient than a tank. The tankless might however cause a little more water use since you have to wait for the hot to get there then blend it vs just blending when the 6 gal is already hot. 

I still think that saving weight, and cubic inches would be a benefit over the tank at least for lightweight trailers. A combination propane furnace and HW heater is very intriguing & since the furnace is already vented, allowing the HW tankless to also use that vent would save even more space. 

The last 6 gal I replaced was in 2007 in our 20' Argosy. Back then tankless in that space was not really a viable option. If this 6 gal ever dies I would love to try a tankless. 


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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 4:47pm
Motor7,

I think you should and let us know the result, until then, I'm with GlueGuy, I don't see a benefit. Until there is a radical change in technology or purpose it's not a priority to me.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: Richand Cindy
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 5:09pm
One other thing I forgot to mention with a tankless.  The hot water is not instant so you will run cold water for a short time until the hot kicks in.  This is not an issue if you have a sewer connection but there is definitely more water filling your grey tank with a tankless. Something to consider for a boondocker.  I do not know what the weight is of the Truma so do not know if it lighter than a 6 gal heater with a filled tank


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OLD 2017.5 RPOD 180 + 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
NEW: 2018 Passport Elite 23RB + 2017 Ram 1500 Diesel


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 5:12pm
Richard Cindy,

Excellent point. I have a tankless in my house, you indeed have to run water to get hot water. Not a good idea for boondockers.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 6:02pm
The only benefit in an RV from going tankless is to not run out of hot water. Unless you are a full timer, you're never going to recoup your investment by saving propane, if you save any at all. 

Mixing 130 degree water from your water heater with say 60 degree water from your fresh water tank you'll be at about a 60/40 mixture to obtain normal shower temperatures. So, to run out of hot water you would be using about 10 gallons of fresh water taking a shower. That's 1/3 of your fresh and gray water tank capacity before you'd need to think about having a tankless system. No one is going to do that boondocking or even in cases when you have partial hookups. For myself, if I use more than gallon of water taking a shower while camping I'd be surprised. 

If you have full hookups you could do it, but I would think you could also just as easily go use a campground shower in that case. If you only camp with full hookups and you really wanted an infinite supply of hot water you could consider removing your gas water heater and installing an electric tankless one. They're really small, only weigh a few pounds, give you very precise temp control, are faster to turn on than the gas ones, and have minimal clearance requirements and no flue and ventilation requirements. You would need a 50A service to run one. I use an electric tankless at home and I can control the water temp to 1 degree of accuracy, which is why I love it so much. 

 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 5:53am
I took a look at the Truma product line. The Truma Aquaglo is a 60k btu/hr unit so it would provide hot water indefinitely until you run out of propane. It is not strictly tankless but close (it has a tiny 0.35 gal buffer tank). Weight is 34 lbs plus water at 3 lbs = 37 lbs.

The Truma Combi Eco plus is only 7500 btu/hr on propane and has a 2.6 gal tank. Weight is 37 lbs plus water at 21 lbs = 58 lbs. 

The Suburban water heater in the rPods is 12000 btu/hr and has a 6 gal tank. Weight is 33 lbs plus water at 50 lbs = 85 lbs. 

So, I would definitely not recommend changing from the Suburban to the Truma Combi Eco plus if your objective was longer showers. You wouldn't be happy. 

For a boondocker the Combi Eco Plus is interesting, a couple gallons of hot water would be fine for me. But it's big claim to fame is that it also heats the RV, for which it uses the same propane heat source of 7500 BTU/hr. Compare that to the Rpod heater at 20kbtu/hr. I don't think that would be anywhere near adequate for 3 seasons camping use in an rPod.

There is one more Truma unit, the Combi Comfort plus, which uses the same 2.6 gal tank but has a 20.4kbtu/hr heat rating. That one looks like it might be a good choice for a boondocker. Weight is the same as the Eco plus. You'd save the weight of both the existing water heater and furnace. Total weight saving would be about 50 lbs. That's significant. But is it worth the $1000+ price tag? Not to me...

It would still not be a good choice for someone looking for a "tankless" unit for long showers. You're going to need more than 20kbtu/hr for that. A low flow 1 gpm shower starting with 50 degree water would need about 30kbth/hr.

I do think one of the little electric tankless units could work great for the long shower enthusiast who has access to full hookups with a 50A service. In thinking about it more, you wouldn't need to remove your existing water heater. The electric tankless units are tiny and light so the added weight isn't worth worrying about.  Just plumb the electric tankless in series after the suburban one and use the existing wall switch to turn on the suburban when you wanted it. If you have 50A hooked up and the suburban off the tankless electric would do the work, and you would be using the campground electricity, not your propane. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 9:26am
My main point in these is size and weight. Long hot showers for the lightweight camper crowd is few and I agree that a $1K price tag for a combi unit is too much(now). As price comes down I predict that tanked water heaters in rv's and trailers will go extinct. It's kind of exciting with tankless and battery/solar technology advancing along with cost effective prices....the future looks promising.  

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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 10:11am
Here's a tankless propane unit for $460. Not too bad.  I like the combi comfort idea the best but not for that much $$$. If that one was $400 I'd consider it, it would get rid of the noise from the existing furnace too. 


Or get this electric one for $200. Only weighs 5 lbs and is 12x10x4 inches, so just add it to your system. Then you can shower all day on the campground's dime Tongue. i have a larger Ecosmart at home, works great. 


https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-appliances/rv-water-heaters/rv-water-heaters/rv-tankless-water-heater-girard-gswh2_42.3250?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhKviBRCNARIsAAGZ7CfE7FsRwydU7RBhv9mCPpJ33IUJHsou1FYevucYQGmdMXhkd9Q7UUwaAraKEALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/EcoSmart-Electric-Tankless-Modulating-Technology/dp/B00529DDUI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548432011&sr=8-3&keywords=tankless+water+heater+electric+8kw



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Richand Cindy
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 10:12pm
It has been two years since we researched tankless water heaters but at the time the Girard's had very poor reviews.  Unless they improved them it is not worth looking into. Truma is the best but more than double the price.  But as others have stated I think current water heaters are more than sufficient for an RPOD and tankless is not ready for prime time yet


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OLD 2017.5 RPOD 180 + 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
NEW: 2018 Passport Elite 23RB + 2017 Ram 1500 Diesel


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 8:53am
I looked at the for about 10 mins one day, then moved on. Lot of difference between tankless in house and tankless in a camper, especially when boondocking. The OP was about propane powered.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 9:17am
I'm pretty sure in roughly 6 years if camping with the Pod I've only had hookups that included sewer twice.  (That's my style and I understand others' experience may be a lot different.)  Anyway, the point is, why have unlimited hot water if you only have a 30 gallon gray tank to put it in?

We leave the water heater on when we camp for a week.  I hear it come on very occasionally -- unless we're taking showers (actually using the hot water) -- I don't think there can be much savings of propane with a tankless heater, especially as others have mentioned, since a lot of people only use it at all a few weeks out of the year.  The WH in the Pod just doesn't use all that much propane in the first place.


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2010 176
FJ Cruiser


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas

I don't think there can be much savings of propane with a tankless heater, especially as others have mentioned, since a lot of people only use it at all a few weeks out of the year.  The WH in the Pod just doesn't use all that much propane in the first place.
That's where I'm at. We use a tiny amount of hot water a couple times a day. The savings just aren't there, and may be debatable in the first place.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: woodanator
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 4:14am
I did a lot of research into https://usefuldiary.com/best-rv-tankless-water-heater/ - __________________

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Signature


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 5:50am
Seems to me with a limited water supply, a limited gray water tank, and venting requirements, they are not very practical for a small travel trailer unless you're only at full hookup sites.  I suppose you could mount it outside the trailer, but you're inviting a whole host of other problems in doing so.

I've been using one all week at my sister-in-law's and it works great.  I was looking at it the other day and thinking it would sure fit nicely in the trailer since it's about 8" deep, 14" wide, and 18" high but it's really set up for a wall mount hand has to have free space above it to let the hot combustion gases out.  In the limited space of a Pod that's complicated, you have to pass through a gallon or two before the water gets hot, and you have to have continuous flow to keep it hot.  But for taking a nice hot shower it works well.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 9:30am
I know we've discussed it six ways from Sunday, but can I get a show of hands when the stock WH has run out of hot water for lack of capacity?

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 2:34pm
No Hollywood showers in the Pod.  Only mariner's showers.  Get a little wet, wash the essentials, quickly rinse.  Use about couple gallons of water.  Hair washing takes about half of that (short hair, long is way more complicated).  When I had my Newport 30 I uses one of those portable shower bags that held <5 gal.  It was plenty for two showers, with no mixing in cold.

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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

I know we've discussed it six ways from Sunday, but can I get a show of hands when the stock WH has run out of hot water for lack of capacity?


When on FHU's, we have.. It takes a while, and I am not sure it can be done unless you just leave the water on the whole time. But we don't. Almost always have the WH on both elec and gas..

Heck, we don't usually do that at home. (leave the water running the whole time) We are on a septic tank, I try to keep our water use down a bit when we can.


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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 3:17pm
Never ran out, not even close.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

I know we've discussed it six ways from Sunday, but can I get a show of hands when the stock WH has run out of hot water for lack of capacity?

I think you might be missing my point. It's more about saving space and weight, not for shower time longevity................


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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 5:39pm
It's hardly worth the effort.  That extra 6 gallons of water in the grand scheme of things isn't going to make that much difference unless you're already loaded to the max.  Simpler to just put in 6 fewer gallons in your fresh water tank.  What's the weight of a tankless heater with all the ancillary piping and heat exchanger?  I suspect, but really don't know, that it is not significantly different from the Suburban heater you have.  

I asked my sister-in-law if she'd mind if I took hers off the wall to weigh it.  She looked at me like I was nuts and started laughing at me saying:  "En tus sueños."  So, I dropped the idea. 


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 6:17pm
Motor 7,

I'm on the side of not seeing a benefit to this. Not to dissuade you, but not an item I can see as a priority. Let us know how your idea turns out. Interested, just not excited.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 7:33pm
Changing to tankless on a small RV makes a lot more sense as a weight saving measure than as a way to use up more water taking showers. 

If you stick with Suburban their tankless unit weighs 36 lbs and the 6 gallon one weighs 32 lbs empty. 6 gal water weighs 50 lbs so you'd save 46 lbs with the changeover to tankless. 

If that's worth it or not is going to depend on how critical it is to save that weight on an individual rig. I could see doing it if I had to replace my water heater anyway. it's a personal decision, no right or wrong to it one way or the other. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 11:41pm
Well, it certainly doesn't seem like it would save space. Maybe a few pounds, but I'm with lostagain. I think all you really need to do (if you want to save the 48 lb water weight) is to not fill the WH before you leave. Sure you lose 6 gallons, but it wouldn't be there with the tankless either.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 3:47am
The RV tankless water heaters fit in the same space as the tank ones. 

You do save the 6 gallons of water. As we all know, the only way to get that 6 gallons out of the tank is to pull the anode.  Otherwise, you're just ferrying around 6 gallons of dead water weight you can't use. No water tank, no 50 lbs of dead weight. If you leave 6 gal out of the fresh water tank you only have 24 gal water available, not 30. That's probably fine if you don't boondock. 



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 7:13am

If weight is really that critical that you can't manage the weight of the 6 gallons of water in the water heater, then you've probably got too much stuff in your trailer and may want to consider getting a bigger one.   I did a little poking around on the Internet and found a tankless water heater that is a direct swap for the Suburban on Amazon.  It runs about $600.  It weighs a little less than half the weight of the Suburban, thus saving you an additional 24 lbs.  [The Suburban cost almost $500.]   http://www.amazon.com/Girard-2GWHAM-Demand-Tankless-Heater/dp/B019BWN8E2/ref=sr_1_24?crid=KZEQQ40ZYQX9&keywords=tankless+water+heater+for+rv+propane&qid=1549717924&s=gateway&sprefix=tankless+water+heater+for+rv%2Caps%2C201&sr=8-24 - https://www.amazon.com/Girard-2GWHAM-Demand-Tankless-Heater/dp/B019BWN8E2/ref=sr_1_24?crid=KZEQQ40ZYQX9&keywords=tankless+water+heater+for+rv+propane&qid=1549717924&s=gateway&sprefix=tankless+water+heater+for+rv%2Caps%2C201&sr=8-24

 

Tankless water heaters are activated by flow, so you have to run it long enough to get the flow hot.  I'm using one right now every day for a shower and it takes quite a bit of water passing through the system before the water from the heater gets hot enough to be useful.  That amount will depend on the starting temperature of the water, the distance to the point of use, the flow rate, and the efficiency of the heat exchanger.  So, you'd want to compare how much water you will use to get usable hot water from both the tankless and tank systems. 

 

My suspicion, based on using one every day here in Colombia, is that you'd use pretty close to a couple of quarts to a gallon before getting useable hot water.  And if you take mariner's showers, you are going to have to reheat each time you turn the water off and on.  [The amount of reheating depends on how long it's turned off and the ambient temperature of the fresh water in the tank.]  In contrast, the tank gives you nearly instant hot water with each turning off and on, the delay being the distance from the tank to the shower and how fast the hot water in the line cools off.

 

Given the limited tankage, both gray and fresh, and the higher level of water use for a tankless water heater, if you boondock, such a system may not be the best option.  On the other hand, if you tend to stay in RV parks with full hookups and don’t have to worry about a limited supply of water and gray water tankage, then such a system could be ideal. 


So, the decision really depends on how you use your shower and sink, whether the extra use of water needed to get useable hot water is more efficient than lugging around an extra 65 lbs. of water and water heater for the tanked system.   I'd be interested in your experience if you change out your unit for a tankless, so please let us know.



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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 8:11am
I don't think they are done getting smaller yet. The RV ones now are designed to fit the opening of the old tanked ones so that is why they are so large. Sooner or later, a mfg will come up with a more compact gas fired one that will take up maybe 1/3 of the present designed compartment. Then we will gain storage and lose some dead weight. Just think of how many bottles of Bourbon could fit in there(that's Not dead weight)! Until then, I'm not in a hurry to swap mine out, but just daydreaming about the future. 

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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 8:41am
Making room for Bourbon is a non-sequitur for me.  I don't like it and don't drink it.  Now, if you were talking about tequila Herradura Reposado that'd be a horse of a different color.  

Gaining storage from a smaller tankless water heater makes the equation change and since it is a question of trade-offs, that may be the balance tipper.  The other issue is cost.  Many of the tankless systems are pretty pricey and for those of us on a limited budget, it just doesn't make sense, even if we are in need of replacement of the exiting Suburban water heater.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 9:29am
The space around the current water heater in my 179 is under the bed so is wasted anyway. And you have to have clearances for the hot flue gasses so I'm not sure its either needed or desirable to have a much smaller tankless unit.

If money is no object you can get a Truma Comfort Plus and remove both the current furnace and water heater, it performs both functions. Its a hybrid design with a 2.6 gallon tank to address lostagain's point regarding water waste while the on demand system heats up after sensing water flow. It will save about 50 lbs total weight including the the net water weight savings, plus the space saving from replacing both existing units.

And, the furnace section is actually quiet, addressing another issue that has prompted some members here to add heat exchangers to the hot water systems. Only catch? Ya have to have about $1500 burning a hole in your pocket...


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 1:47pm
If you had to replace both your heater and water heater, something like the Truma Comfort Plus could really make some sense.  The question is whether it would be worth it in an older Pod.  If you planned on keeping it a long time after the switch it may be cost effective, but if you tend to turn over your RV's every so often, it may not be such a good idea.

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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 2:36pm
For a luxury class B the Truma makes lots of sense, they are tight on space and what's a thousand dollars more on a new $100K plus RV? As a retrofit for budget conscious travel trailer owners, not so much. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 6:36pm
I looked at some of the tankless RV water heaters in Amazon.  The issues in this review were not uncommon:
"I have a Girard tankless water heater in my 2014 Jayco Motorhome. It is by far, the worst water heater that I have ever had in my 35+ years of camping. I am not sure how the Precision Temp RV-550 Tankless Water Heater works, but if it is anything like the Girard, Don't get it. I am having the tankless water heater removed and replaced with a standard 6 gallon Propane/Electric Water heater at a cost of $1700.
The tankless water heater will not hold the temperature that you adjust it to and the water fluctuates from scalding hot to ice cold over and over again. This is because the water pressures in campgrounds fluctuates all the time and tankless water heaters do not work well because of this. This is extremely dangerous when taking a shower.
Take my advice, until the tankless water heater companies address the fluctuating water temperature problems, stay with the standard 6 or 10 gallon water heaters."

It looks like the technology needs a little fine tuning.  The complaint in this review is exactly what I experienced with my first tankless water heating system back in 2002 in an apartment where I lived.



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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 7:18pm
We have two water heaters in our house (it was built in two different stages). The south (original side) has a conventional tank-style water heater. We've replaced it a couple of times over the years. It works fine and is steady. Nice hot water.

The north (addition side) has a tankless heater. Understand first that this tankless heater was new in 1995. We've never replaced it. It does not supply a "lot" of water, but it does OK. By itself, it supplies hot water to one or two sinks. However, if you need to fill a tub, or take a shower, you need to enable the "booster". The booster is electric and uses something like 6KW of juice (~~ 30 amps at 220 volts). I can hear the electric meter spin when that puppy is on.

I'm sure tankless heaters have improved in the 25 or so years since that thing was made. If I had to do over again, I would install point-of-use tankless heaters in the two bathrooms. As it is, you have to wait about 3 days for the hot water to make it to the sink.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 7:59pm
My daughter has a tankless system that they installed about 12 years ago and they've been pretty happy with it.  But it's a high BTU system for their small 4 br. house.  The ambient water temp is not so cold so the amount of heating that has to be done is well within the capacity of their heater.  The heater in my sister-in-law's apartment works well but they have the flow rate set at the minimum and the temp at max.  Like my daughters, they have a starting temp that is not too cold.

I looked into a tankless system when I lived in northern NJ and decide against it because in the winter the starting water temp was just too cold for all but the most costly heaters. 

For us, we're sticking with our Suburban 6 gal for our Pod.  We hardly heat water anyway and it is more than adequate for our needs.  The extra weight is of no consequence in our already light trailer.


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 5:50am
The tankless electric heaters essentially adjust instantaneously now. Precise to a degree or better with no noticeable lags or temp variations. Can’t speak for the gas ones but they’re probably pretty close to that. Which one makes the most sense depends on the costs of energy in your area, for me electric is cheapest.

With any tankless system the peak heating capacity has to be selected to meet your max flow rate and inlet and outlet water temps. You can do this calc yourself or use a table provided by the manufacturer. Tankless systems will probably use more power (electric or gas) than any other appliance in your house, but they will use less energy (power over time) than a tank water heater because when you’re not using water they’re off.

If anyone is contemplating any significant home replumbing you should take a look at modern pex based water distribution systems first, plumbing has changed dramatically and for the better in the last few years. I had to replace all my plumbing distribution after Matthew and am amazed at how much easier it is now, less expensive, more compact and convenient, leak free, and with faster water delivery.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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