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tire pressure

Printed From: R-pod Owners Forum
Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
Forum Discription: Perplexed/need help with a problem - ask here
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12876
Printed Date: 04 May 2024 at 5:36am
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Topic: tire pressure
Posted By: EchoGale
Subject: tire pressure
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:19pm
I'm so excited. About to set out on my first big trip from Florida to Maine via Kentucky. I'm doing some last minute checks and realized I am confused about tire pressure.  The tires say 65 lbs and, sitting in my yard my gauge reads 55. But I know once I start driving they'll heat up.  Is the 65 psi for cold tires?  If so, how do I keep them cold while driving to fill them (or more likely adjust for the change?)  Should I just go and add 10 lbs to whatever reading I get when I get there?

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Julie



Replies:
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:36pm
I fill mine to max, for D rated 65 ft.lbs. I have an EEZ Go tire monitor, they will drift as high as 70 with speed heat.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: Happy Tripping
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:40pm
I'm not a tire expert but will jump in because you  say you're about to go.

Cold temperatures are cold temperatures only. I don't know why, but everyone agrees that warm tire temperatures are not consistent and should not be measured.

One last point, are you measuring both the trailer tires' pressure and your cars? 65 pounds is high for standard trailer tires, it sounds like your tires are rated maybe for higher speeds but its still wise to go around 60-65 mph on your trip, in my opinion. 

I hope your trip is enjoyable.


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:41pm
65 PSI is the standard tire pressure for load class D tires, and it is meant to be cold.

Your tires will heat up as you drive, and I would be cautious about just adding 10 PSI when you get to a filling station. Fully inflated tires won't heat up as much as partially inflated tires.

So (for example) if your TP is 59 PSI when you get to the filling station, that is a delta of 4 PSI. I would probably split the difference (2 PSI), and inflate them to 67 PSI when you get to the filling station.

If you have a chance to stop and let your tires cool down, then I would check them again when they're cool to make sure you haven't over (or under) done it.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 8:32pm
I carry a little compressor to keep my tires filled to the correct setting [65 psi cold on D range tires].  I fill them with the compressor at home before we leave and check them again the morning after each stop while I'm also checking the lug nut torque with the torque wrench I carry in the trailer.  The whole process only takes a few minutes.  

I had an old single piston compressor that took forever to fill the tires and replaced it with this one: http:// www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077N9PXV3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 -  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077N9PXV3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1   It runs on 12v and works really well.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: EchoGale
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 8:41pm
Okay thanks.  Yes to going 60-65, though I'm a speed demon and that will be difficult. 

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Julie


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 10:08pm
For tires, 'cold' means not having been driven on, or heated up, in the last several hours.

If you need to drive slowly a few blocks, or a mile or two, at slow to normal, urban speeds, you can still consider the tires 'cold' (more or less)...But if you have to drive 5-10 miles in hot weather at highway speeds to some distant location just to check and add air, then the tires are no longer 'cold'.

If your r-pod is new it might have nitrogen filled tires. Mine does. You can add regular air if you need to, but if your tires have green valve stem caps, and/or a nitrogen sticker on the side of the pod, and BOTH of your tires are at 55psi, you need to check your gauge against a known good quality gauge, or have the tires checked at a tire shop to be sure. They may be at 65psi and your gauge could be incorrect. 

Have you verified the accuracy of your tire pressure gauge?


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:09am
Originally posted by podwerkz

If your r-pod is new it might have nitrogen filled tires. Mine does. You can add regular air if you need to, but if your tires have green valve stem caps, and/or a nitrogen sticker on the side of the pod, and BOTH of your tires are at 55psi, you need to check your gauge against a known good quality gauge, or have the tires checked at a tire shop to be sure. They may be at 65psi and your gauge could be incorrect. 

Have you verified the accuracy of your tire pressure gauge?
Pressure is pressure and the atmosphere is mostly nitrogen anyway. What your tires are filled with will not affect what the tire gauge reads.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:22am
Regardless of what your tires are filled with, its a good idea to cross check tire gauges. The cheap gauges are notorious for being inaccurate. Also, be sure to get the gauge pressed onto the valve stem straight and hold it there for a second or two.  If you hear the sound of air leaking out during the pressure measurement the gauge will likely read low. 

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:36am
One of he advantages of a small portable compressor is that they come with a dial gauge that is a little more accurate than the typical air hose valve gauge or the little stick gauge.  And it's a lot easier to see.  

In most gas stations these days, I wouldn't feel to confident about the accuracy of the gauges on the hoses since they are dropped, battered, and left out in the elements to get crud in them.  You can buy a nice dial tire gauge for <$20, but if you're going to spend that money, you may as well buy it with the compressor attached for a few bucks more.


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:29pm
You can also pick up a nice little portable air compressor from Target, HD, Lowes, or Walmart for between $30 and $80. Most of them run on 12V, and a couple also have 120VAC input. Some will also have a built-in flashlight and/or carrying case. Most are pretty small; smaller than a bread box. They're not fast, but you can use them almost anywhere.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 
 Pressure is pressure and the atmosphere is mostly nitrogen anyway. What your tires are filled with will not affect what the tire gauge reads.

True, but my advice stands. Here is why:

IF the tires are factory-filled or dealer-filled with nitrogen, they are much less likely to have been under-filled, or to have both lost 10 psi just sitting around. Nitrogen filled tires hold proper psi for 3 to 6 times longer than regular air filled tires. 

If they are filled with 'regular' air, then slow air loss (over a few months) is considered by all of us to be more or less, normal, so two 65 psi tires sitting at 55 psi would not be unusual, meaning the gauge is probably correct.   

Still, it is very little trouble to verify a new gauge against a known, accurate, gauge. 










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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 1:20pm
Why does pure nitrogen as opposed to an 80% mix stay in the tires longer.  Does that 20% of other gases leak out easier?  Just wondering. Confused

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 1:27pm
Yep...nitrogen molecules are bigger than oxygen molecules...so they permeate thru the rubber tire carcass at a much slower rate. 

Many long haul trucks use nitrogen inflated tires (at least on the steer tires) because of this property alone. The large fleet I drove for had very good success with nitrogen filled tires. 





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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: EchoGale
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 1:45pm
Thanks everyone.  I found a place close enough to fill the tires that shouldn't heat them up much.  I will check my gauge against the one there; heading there soon.  I do not believe the tires are filled with nitrogen.  I have seen no indication of such.  Its not surprising to me that the tires are low.  While new to me, this is a 2016 that seems to have not had much attention at all at least over the last 1.5 with a second owner.  The tires were replaces by the first owner in 2017.

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Julie


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Yep...nitrogen molecules are bigger than oxygen molecules...so they permeate thru the rubber tire carcass at a much slower rate. 

Many long haul trucks use nitrogen inflated tires (at least on the steer tires) because of this property alone. The large fleet I drove for had very good success with nitrogen filled tires.
Since the ratio of nitrogen to oxygen is roughly 80:20, and oxygen permeates rubber faster than oxygen, then I would postulate that tires inflated with plain old atmosphere are slowly becoming nitrogen-filled naturally. Just wait long enough, and all those old, nasty oxygen molecules will just permeate to the outside. Then you will end up with (mostly) nitrogen-filled tires and you won't have to buy any of that expensive stuff. Then you buy new tires and start all over. Big smile

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:44pm
Yep, again, all true... (discounting trace elements)... That's also why some old tires are still holding some air after ten years sitting in the junkyard or behind an old barn: The oxygen went on permanent vacation before the old rubber hardened with age or vulcanized in the UV...now all the residual air, mostly nitrogen, is stuck inside holding SOME air pressure in the tire. 

I don't go around testing old tires for nitrogen/oxygen ratio, but I would assume it's not 80:20 inside the tire after many years.


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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by EchoGale

The tires were replaces by the first owner in 2017.

Then it's unlikely they are nitrogen filled. 

SO...carry on with normal procedures.

Cool



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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 3:28pm
If you want to look at what's going on on the molecular level check this out:

https://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf - https://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

So, the permeability is proportional to the difference in the partial pressures of each gas between the inside and outside of the tire.  If the permeability of N2 through rubber is about 1/4 that of O2 and there is 4x as much N2 as O2 in the normal atmosphere, the two ratios roughly cancel, so the total amount of N2 and O2 lost are about the same to start with. 

So if you start with 80 psi of air (65 psi on your gauge because that is measuring delta pressure relative to an atmospheric pressure of 15 psi)  that will be 64 psi N2 and 16 psi O2. After some period of time you might have 59 psi N2 and 11 psi O2 for a 16% O2 mixture which would give you 70 psi  (55 on your gauge).  You'd never get to 0 percent O2 because the loss rate of O2 would get slower and slower relative to the N2 loss rate as time went on.  If you air your tires back up to 80 psi (65 gauge) then you can continue the process of slowly increasing the N2 content of your tires over time, but you'd still never get to 100% N2.

Still, if you were trapped underwater with another person you didn't know with no source of oxygen other than two tires, one old and one new, you should grab the newer tire. Unless of course it was nitrogen filled, in which case you'd be totally screwed). LOL

 



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 4:21pm
Rescue Dive Team Leader on surface to dive team under water: "You found WHAT down there?"

Diver: "I repeat, a huge bloated corpse with its face attached to an old 400 pound tractor tire and wheel"....

Oh lord. Shocked







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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 4:42pm
An old trailer tire (if maintained at 65 psi using air) would wind up holding only about 9% O2 eventually. At which point it would reach steady state and no longer lose O2 faster than N2. 

Now, an old tractor tire, being a much lower pressure tire, would not only hold a whole lot more air but  would reach steady state at a much higher % O2. If its maintained at 10 psi it would end up at about 14% O2. All ya gotta do is find a way to let only a little air out at a time so you don't become that boated corpse.Dead


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: EchoGale
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 6:27pm
Thanks everyone.  Found a tire dealer nearby, got the tires inflated and confirmed that the gauge I'm using is accurate.  good to go, first thing in the morning!

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Julie


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 7:10pm
Since air is about 78% nitrogen, and I already have enough things to complicate my life, I think I'm going to continue to fill my tires with a mixture of 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen, plus a little argon and increasing levels of CO2.  That way, if I ever fall off a bridge into a deep lake with our Pod, I can let the air out of the tires and have plenty of oxygen to keep me going until I can reach the surface.

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 7:52pm
Wonder why no one has switched to krypton. The molecules are huge, and it's an inert gas. That's what SpaceX is using for their ion drive for Starlink. They chose krypton because it was less expensive than the alternative.

BTW - Congrats on getting your tires sorted out, in spite all of our editorial comments. Enjoy your trip!


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:16pm
And in its solid form [Kryptonite} it keeps Superman from pestering you while you're out camping.  He won't show up and want to change in your Pod.  Thumbs Up

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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:24am
Originally posted by lostagain

And in its solid form [Kryptonite} it keeps Superman from pestering you while you're out camping.  He won't show up and want to change in your Pod.  Thumbs Up

You'll need a better fridge than your Dometic which barely keeps food cool. The freezing point of Krypton is about -250F. LOL


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 8:29am
It wasn't like that in the movies!  They held it in their hands and it stopped Superman in his tracks.  If it was in a movie, it must be true; like when I see it in the internet.  Wacko 

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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: cosmo751
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 8:58am
Could be the price - If my rusty math serves me, filling with Krypton would  run around $120 per tire - the stuff is roughly $33.00 per hundred grams. If you'd like to try your own math skills use the formula for volume of a torus - Post your results - I could be wrong.

  Warning - my math is not that reliable.

KN


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"He not busy being born is busy dying."


Posted By: cosmo751
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 9:08am
And that is at standard temperature and pressure. Add a factor of 3 for 55psi and you just spent $960 to fill your two tires. I think - Dissenters please feel free to post your homework -

KN


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"He not busy being born is busy dying."


Posted By: crw8sr
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:19am
"Damn it Jim!  I'm an Accountant not an Engineer!"  (Dr McCoy to Capt Kirk, sort of.) 
I can't wrap my head around all this talk about different gases.......I'll use a good gauge, check my tires and enjoy the view.   And hopefully not fall in the water without a spare tire.


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Chuck & Lyn
Izzy, Morkie. RIP
Zoe Joy & Gracie, Yorkie
2018 R Pod 190   
2019 Traverse

In moments of adversity;when life's a total wreck, I think of those worse off than me and really feel like heck.


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:30am
Originally posted by crw8sr

"Damn it Jim!  I'm an Accountant not an Engineer!"  (Dr McCoy to Capt Kirk, sort of.) 
I can't wrap my head around all this talk about different gases.......I'll use a good gauge, check my tires and enjoy the view.   And hopefully not fall in the water without a spare tire.
I've always felt that nitrogen-filled tires concept was a bit of a scam. Not that it doesn't reduce the leakage, but whether it's worth the added cost and hassle. For the tiny amount of overhead of topping up your tires periodically, it's just not worth it. Plus, you still need to check the pressure regularly. 

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:11am
Originally posted by cosmo751

Could be the price - If my rusty math serves me, filling with Krypton would  run around $120 per tire - the stuff is roughly $33.00 per hundred grams. If you'd like to try your own math skills use the formula for volume of a torus - Post your results - I could be wrong.

  Warning - my math is not that reliable.

KN

I get 3.74 grams/liter for Krypton at standard temperature and pressure so roughly around 20 grams in a tire at 65 psi, or maybe $6 a tire for a Krypton fill. Still way too expensive for me. Thumbs Down


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:15am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Originally posted by crw8sr

"Damn it Jim!  I'm an Accountant not an Engineer!"  (Dr McCoy to Capt Kirk, sort of.) 
I can't wrap my head around all this talk about different gases.......I'll use a good gauge, check my tires and enjoy the view.   And hopefully not fall in the water without a spare tire.
I've always felt that nitrogen-filled tires concept was a bit of a scam. Not that it doesn't reduce the leakage, but whether it's worth the added cost and hassle. For the tiny amount of overhead of topping up your tires periodically, it's just not worth it. Plus, you still need to check the pressure regularly. 

+1. Nitrogen still permeates out so you have to check anyhow, even if you don't suspect a leak. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: cosmo751
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:34pm
Gonna have to recheck my Marvel Super-Duper calculator again.. LOL !

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"He not busy being born is busy dying."


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:52pm
+2 to OffGrid and Glue Guy. There are applications for Nitrogen inflated tires. If your plans don't include NASCAR and the Indy 500 with your TT, you'll probably be just fine. I do check my pressure regularly and check my lug nuts. I have D reated tires and I inflate to 65, per the sidewall.

-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."



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