Brakes
Printed From: R-pod Owners Forum
Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
Forum Discription: Perplexed/need help with a problem - ask here
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12964
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 1:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.64 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Brakes
Posted By: jato
Subject: Brakes
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 4:31pm
Having problems with the brakes on our 177. IF I manually put the brakes on (11 F-150) the brakes stop immediately on the 177 (blocked up so tires don't hit the ground) matters not if the setting is 3, 4.5 or 7. Now if I apply the brake pedal, nothing happens on the trailer. Took readings on the Bargman, 12.9 volts when I apply brakes both manually and with the pedal. Went through the wiring as much as I can see from the brake to where it is covered, all looks fine, no breakage, no pinching, cable ties are all in order. A neighbor thinks my factory installed controller is possibly toast. Any ideas? Thank you.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 10:26pm
|
I don't know exactly how the F150 brake controller is set up so if someone else does that you be better than any ideas I could give you.
If you're getting 12.9 volts either from the pedal or the manual lever on the brake pin then the 177 brakes should react the same, they only see the 12.9V, they don't know what pedal or lever you activated to get that. So, first (sorry for being obvious) be 100% sure you're measuring the brake pin and not the battery pin.
If you are then possibly the controller isn't actually putting out 12.9 volts when loaded down by the 177 brakes while you are on the pedal, but is when you're on manual. You could connect a jumper wire between the trailer and tow vehicle brake pins and another between the negative pins so you can get in there with your meter and see what the voltage is from the brake controller when the brakes are actually loading it up.
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 9:51am
|
I presume you have the factory TBC? and.. are you talking about squeezing the TBC control versus actually using the brake pedal? Is the ignition on with the engine running?
Our 2015 displays on the dashboard the amount of braking that is being sent to the trailer on the dashboard display. Does your 2011 do the same?
-------------
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 3:40pm
Yes, we have the factory TBC and yes I was squeezing the control with the vehicle running. I have not seen a display on my dashboard showing the amount of braking while doing so. Will further investigate this. Ran a test from the 177's bargman to the brakes, wires show continuity. That is all for now. Also have set an appointment for the truck for next Tuesday, in case this isn't solved by then. Thanks Glueguy and offgrid
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 5:23pm
Most brake controllers have an accelerometer in them that senses the tow vehicle decelerating and applies the trailer brakes proportionally to how fast the deceleration is. The manual control overrides this. Could it be that the brake controller is actually working OK but since the tow vehicle isn't moving its not sensing any deceleration so not activating the trailer brakes? Just a thought....
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:45pm
I have to move Pod tomorrow and do have a display of on board braking effect, will do some tests, like Offgrids idea. Manual and moving are 2 different functions, if that makes sense:) Will report.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by offgrid
Most brake controllers have an accelerometer in them that senses the tow vehicle decelerating and applies the trailer brakes proportionally to how fast the deceleration is. The manual control overrides this. Could it be that the brake controller is actually working OK but since the tow vehicle isn't moving its not sensing any deceleration so not activating the trailer brakes? Just a thought.... |
The factory F-150 TBC doesn't work that way, at least not on our 2015. Ours receives information from the truck's computer about how much brake pressure is being applied, and proportions trailer brakes accordingly. I'm just speaking about our 2015, because I don't really know how the 2011 works, but thought it might be similar.
On our 2015 the dashboard displays "trailer brake pressure", and it displays it proportional to how hard I am pressing on the brake whether the truck is moving or not.
-------------
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:04pm
|
Yesterday I tried going 25 - 30 mph and hit the manual TBC all the way, the trailer barely brakes. I also did a test going down a hill by our house 8% grade and again could tell no difference between using the factory TBC or the brake pedal. With our Explorer if I were to do this (in the past) the brakes would lock up - using the slide on the TBC.
Also, I recently changed bearings and greased, also cleaned the shoes and the drum housing with brake clean. Took apart once just to make sure I didn't get grease on the shoes or drums; everything is squeaky clean. Adjusted brakes so that there is just a small amount of rubbing where you can hear the shoe contacting the drum.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:15pm
I think mine does too. Will check out tomorrow.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 3:38pm
My display indicates when trailer brakes are hooked up and if circuit is complete. Then shows proportional braking signal in either manual or pedal applied, trailer does not need to be in motion. If there is a circuit break I get an error message
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 11:23am
So the factory controller uses data from the vehicle computer system to set its braking action, while the aftermarket controllers don’t have access so use an acellerometer instead.
If that’s the case with Jato’s controller too then I’m puzzled why he gets braking action manually but not with his pedal, especially since he’s seeing the same voltage on the connector brake pin either way. I’m looking forward to hearing what the solution is with this one.
Jato, do you have a clamp on dc current meter? You could see if the current to the brake magnets changes depending on whether you’re using manual or pedal activation. Don’t make the mistake I did and try to measure the current right at the magnets though, the magnetic fields screw up the clamp on readings.
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 5:20pm
Me too. I can say how mine works but can't say why his doesn't.:)
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2019 at 7:03pm
Thanks Mike and offgrid. However I now have an even bigger issue that takes precedence over the brakes and that i can't even do what you asked since I am stuck in hospital in Traverse City since Friday with double pneumonia with a lot of 'gorilla glue' to cough up before I can get out. Don't know too much yet but they are giving me mega steroids, (zero sleep, like wired to the hilt, far out man!) a lot of meds and breathing exercises, nebulizer treatments, ect. ect. Zombie like right now, but cannot access the pod now sitting at home 35 miles away. For sure I will have to get it in somehow, get a neighbor to bring in or maybe my sweetheart of almost 43 years, but don't want to stress her as I have her stressed enough with what I have now. Things will work out, I am sure of that. Once I do get out, and find out about the Truck I will get you the full scoop and let you know what they find. Sure is a mystery though. I like mysteries, but not when I am in the midst of it!
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 8:59am
Update, between hospital and truck appointment. The local guy was unable to diagnose why the TBC isn't functioning as it should (maybe it is toast) as he doesn't have the 10K computer software to read off of the mainframe. So my only alternative is to see the Ford dealer, have only been to a dealer a few times in life, rather give my money to a local mechanic as dealerships are prone be quite a bit more $$$ to fix similar issues. At least I am out of hospital, recuperating, and have an appt. on July 5th for the truck, will give you all the scoop on that day, hopefully they will be able to diagnose and repair.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 4:55pm
jato,
Take care of yourself. Your health is more important than a brake problem that WILL get resolved. Like you I hate to give up and see a "dealer" but stuff happens and everything has to do with some computer program. I have a guy who works on my vintage cars, but he can't do my new stuff, because the software is too expensive or proprietary. Anyway, get healthy and looking forward to results.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 5:15pm
Sorry to hear about the pneumonia, it’s very dangerous if not caught in time. Nebulizers are great, I got one for my wife who is prone to pneumonia. She starts on it as soon as she has any cold symptoms and it keeps her out of the hospital. RPods can wait, you health is far more important. All the best.
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2019 at 8:52pm
+1 on the get well wishes. My wife has asthma so any cold almost always turns into bronchitis. She has also had a bout of two of pneumonia. Something that is helpful is Thyme tea. Take a hand full of fresh thyme and put it in a pot with water. Bring that to a boil, then turn it off and let steep for 15 minutes. Strain and drink, with some honey if desired. It has a citrus-like flavor and is helpful. We were told about this by one of the local farmer's market vendors. It won't help while you are in the hospital, but it might be helpful in the future if symptoms of breathing difficulties start to return.
-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...
http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 10:46am
|
Thank you everyone for the get well wishes and prayers! 8 weeks with pneumonia was no picnic, what a way to begin retirement. But I must say, this is quite minor with what I know other people have to deal with.
Last Friday the truck went in to the Ford dealer. They found a bad wiring harness (Corroded) and also the back side of the bargman was questionable as well. Since they didn't have the parts in stock I get to go in this afternoon for them to do this procedure. They felt they are pretty sure this will take care of the problem, but once it is installed they will let me know whether or not there are any issues with the TBC. If that is all good then I will bring it home and hopefully have brakes on the 177. If not at least it will be narrowed down to the wiring on the 177. Will keep you posted.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 12:42pm
|
If possible take your trailer with you to the dealer. Drop it in the lot. When the repairs are completed, go hook up and make sure the trailer brakes are now working.
Good luck!
-------------
r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2019 at 8:41pm
Update, Ford dealership installed new wiring bundle that goes to Bargman and also new Bargman plug and added a lot of di-electric grease. Told me it is good to go. Since we were traveling to Manistique (U.P.) Michigan the next day I made an appointment from the dealer I purchased our 177 from (Hilltop in Escanaba, MI) to check to make sure all was well with our trailer. They adjusted the brakes, checked voltage from plug to magnets, ect. Said everything was good to go. On my way out I got up to 10 mph on a bit of dirt/gravel before hitting the pavement and the trailer stopped quite nicely, this was using my brake controller manually. So we get to our campsite near Manistique and before setting up camp pulled off the main road onto a side road and decided to jack up the axle with the tire free spinning in the air. Spun tire, had my wife use the TBC manually and the tire instantly stopped. GREAT ! Next and final test: spin tire again and use the truck brake pedal - - - -nothing. So somehow I still have an issue from the brake pedal to the TBC. Come Monday morning I will call our Ford dealer and get another appointment, at least progress is being made but s l o w l y.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 6:40pm
Update July 19,2019. At Ford dealer for almost 2 hours. They ran test after test and are scratching their heads. Not only is there the brake issue but in addition now I get "trailer disconnected" message when I push the brake pedal and "trailer connected" when the brake pedal is released. On my way to the dealer also got "check brake system" on the info screen. Left truck running when I got there so they could maybe diagnose that as well. So nearly 2 hours later with truck running the whole time, and with an outdoor temp of 96, technicians were unable to come to any difinitive conclusion. Monday morning they will contact the "experts" at Ford and get their take on all this. So my cost today was just my time (3 hours) and fuel (truck running the whole time as well). They will get me next time when the 'big boys' decide what and where the problem (s) lie. In the meantime I still think it is all related to a bum TBC. Hopefully in the next week or two I can give you the "final answer."
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: wthoms2000
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 1:40am
Jato, my recommendation: buy and install an inertial Tekonsha brake controller.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Brake_Controller-pm-Tekonsha.aspx?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxJDyv_PH4wIVAb7ACh0xkQKoEAAYASAAEgL3UPD_BwE - https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Brake_Controller-pm-Tekonsha.aspx?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxJDyv_PH4wIVAb7ACh0xkQKoEAAYASAAEgL3UPD_BwE
They work well and cheaper than the gas you are burning to the dealers.
Good luck.
-------------
Porta Poddy
Wil and Luz, Orange County, CA
2017.5 179 HRE
2021 Ranger XLT FX4
REDARC Brake Controller
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 7:46am
Jato,
I will be interested in what you find. Shouldn't be this complicated. The brake controller output is easy to check (one wire). Then it has a complete circuit loop it monitors. Personally think there is a wiring issue, something is wrong with the blue wire.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 7:48am
Originally posted by jato
Update July 19,2019. Not only is there the brake issue but in addition now I get "trailer disconnected" message when I push the brake pedal and "trailer connected" when the brake pedal is released.
|
Looks like the trailer disconnect error is a common problem with the Ford TBC. Check out this thread for example. Some folks have apparently fixed this with a separate solid ground connection between the trailer and truck. You might want to try that and see if it helps.
https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/ford-f-150-trailer-disconnect-issue/ - https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/ford-f-150-trailer-disconnect-issue/
Personally, I don't think you have two problems , just two symptoms of the same problem. Either you have a bad controller as you suspect of you have an intermittent open in the brake circuit somewhere that is both keeping the brakes from working sometimes and indicating to the controller sometimes that the brakes aren't connected. Those intermittent connections can be really hard to pin down.
Good luck!
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 4:55pm
+1 - this is a one wire problem, you can check operation of TBC without the trailer, then the "complete" circuit issue is next.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 9:06am
Finally got in to the Ford dealer as they finally got an answer from the 'experts' from the big boys at Ford Motor support. Here is what they originally did: install a temporary overlay between C1242-14 and 439-A wire/solenoid. Retest - fail. Replace trailer brake controller (TBC) with a NEW ONE (yes) and removed the temporary overlay wiring harness. Test - pass. So in essence, it was indeed the brake controller. Glad to have this matter behind us as we have a lot of podding ahead of us. In two weeks going to the 'thumb' portion of Michigan followed by a month in Colorado (RMNP) and Utah - national parks.
-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
|
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 3:47pm
SUCCESS, Happy.
-------------
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
|
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 7:07pm
Congratulations!
-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
|
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 7:22pm
First I've heard of one actually failing. Glad you got it fixed!
-------------
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
|
|